Who Killed MotoGP?

[MrJan]

Something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. For many years I've been proud to be a fan of MotoGP, I could scoff in the faces of people talking about F1 and it's lack of interest by simply saying 'yeah but did you see the motorbikes?' Races were epic, passing moves audacious and boredom came only when.........well actually it never really materialised because it was so busy over at F1.

Then came 2007. New rules, new bikes, new riders. Rossi looking to regain his crown after being unceremoniously de-throned by someone best described as 'consistent'. All of a sudden I'm in a strange place, these previously amazing bikes are dull, lifeless and depressing. The same bloke wins every week, but not in the climb 6 places in two laps excite-mo way of Vale. No he just outshines everyone from the start. the world champion doesn't know how to ride his bike and the self-styled god of MotoGP is making mistakes, having problems and being completely uninteresting besides a supposed tax scam.

Worst of all I found myself saying something I never thought possible during the race at Misano, something so dreadful that I am ashamed to admit it. Something that previously only resided in the world of Alonso, Schumacher et al.....Several laps in the commentator said that 20 something laps remained and I turned to my father and said "oh god not another 20 laps of this".

it shocked me and quite frankly I want to know who has committed this outrage on the glorious world of MotoGP that has brought it down to the ugly level of tedium that is F1. I don't care if it's tyres, smaller capacity or an act of God himself, the person who has created this unspeakable evil must pay :

RANT OVER

[RaikkonenRules]

I agree that Moto GP races aren't what they are used to be. Recently all the riders have just spread further and further apart. Kurtis Roberts even got lapped.

[jim mcglinchey]

Thats a load of spute. For as long as Ive been watching bike racing the objective was to get pole position, get the hole shot and clear off into the distance and let the others fight for the runner up places. It may not be what the fans wantto see ideally but its the way to success.

[patnicholls]

I guess there's nothing like an OTT thread title eh?

Well, OK, I grant you that the races at Misano, Brno and Laguna weren't the best we've ever seen.

A few of my thoughts on this thread:

I started watching in 2000; the season opening Africas GP in which Garry McCoy power-slid to victory was my first ever race. For most of that season, there were 19, 20, or 21 bikes on the grid. Not much different to the 19 this year - and don't forget we started with two Ilmors also. And in 2000 there were some really uncompetitive bikes - two Aprilia twins which were nowhere at all except at twisty tracks, the KR bike and no less than five Honda twins which were no match for any four-cylinder bikes. Check the motogp.com results, things were no closer than this year and in many cases rather more spread out.

Admittedly, we have had a couple of seasons of around 23/24 bikes, I'll give you that. But again that's with stuff like the WCMs, the Paton machine or the Pulse bikes in there. It should also be noted that since 2000, the size of the 125cc grid in particular has gone up significantly and 250s are constant-ish. However, I'm in agreement that some more bikes (hopefully competitive ones) on that grid wouldn't go amiss in the main class.

As for the past being more exciting, a few things to consider:

We have had some great years (particularly when Sete was challenging Vale), but then again take a look at 2002 and 2005 when Vale gave the field a thorough spanking from the opening race onwards. With the past, we summarise it in our heads and remember the best bits and great races definitely didn't happen every race despite what we'd like to think - there was definitely the odd boring one in there too. We also get a bit more complacent as we know more about what we're watching, I reckon. Every race can't be a Mugello/Barcelona/Sachsenring epic!

Furthermore, the grids this year have been about the closest ever, which does raise our expectations for the races themselves and is bound to lead to a little disappointment cos we expect to see a 125-style race which is unrealistic.

Then there's the breakdown of what a close race actually involves. In an F1 race, if car and driver are 1% out from the winner on the track over a 90-second lap, they'll be a minute behind at the end of the race - in other words utterly nowhere. In MotoGP we have shorter races obviously, but the same eye-opener still applies. A couple of tenths or half a second difference per lap is a tiny amount when all's said and done when there are so many factors involved. You simply can't manufacture a 'close' race, there's too much that can vary. Also, none of the riders involved are interested in having a close race, they want to get into the lead and run away to have a nice easy afternoon. The powers that be want things to be as close as possible, because if one manufacturer dominates then the others get scared away.

Maybe the 500s were a little more dramatic, but we moved on from them for a number of reasons and there's no going back. As mentioned above, half the field was B-list bikes with no chance of winning except in the wet. Since 2002, Kawasaki and Ducati have come into the fold, which can only be a good thing. Aside from 2000 when Kenny took the title in a year of wet races, Honda kicked everyone's arse for ten years straight.

This year we've had the first Suzuki win in six years, a Rossi win from 11th (Assen), the ushering in of a new superstar, and some great races here and there (Catalunya being the stand-out).

And - what's wrong with domination? Last year we had a close title fight as everyone was busy making errors, having mechanicals and trying their best to lose the title, and people whinged about Nicky winning it. Now we're back in the time of one rider dominating and you're still unhappy! A lot of people thought it was boring when Daijiro Kato dominated 250s, and then were forced to feel rightly guilty after his death because they hadn't appreciated his genius until it was too late. I've got no problem with Vale, Casey or anyone dominating - it shows there's someone special at work.

MotoGP dead? If so, the wake's pretty good...

[ArmchairBikeFan]

The trouble is that the rules changed hugely, Ducati and Bridgestone got it exactly right, Stoner turned out to be brilliant, and everybody else was left wondering what the hell hit them.
It looks like Yamaha have pretty much admitted that they were woefully mistaken in how fast they thought they'd have to go, and are now working towards next year. Honda seem like they're still working incrementally to be quick at the end of this year. Suzuki are getting very quick already.
I think that if they keep the exact same rules next year the racing at the front will be much improved, because Honda will have time to make a proper bike, Yamaha a proper engine and Michelin some proper tyres.
Anyway, Toni Elias still overtakes people. He's a little hero!

[The Phantom]

There's a lot of good observations here, from both sides of the fence.

I got into GP in 1992 when I went to Eastern Creek to see Doohan and Beattie take a 1-2. Since then I've never really found it to be boring in any way, even this year - but I'm into the minutia of the whole thing; if the race is a procession then I enjoy looking at the track, the crowds, the pop-up graphics... I guess I'm just easily pleased

It should have been 800s in 2007 and tyres in 2008. Or, tyres in 2007 and don't touch the bikes. Ah well. Look for Suzuki to take it to Stoner before the year is out, and don't forget there's still a titanic battle in WSB this year...

[tha_jackal]

I think this topic is very much an over-reaction.. If you think back to earlier races this year, we have seen some close, intense racing.. Catalunya? Rossi vs Stoner all the way? That was brilliant..

People just seem to have short memories.. F1 can only ever dream to be as entertaining as MotoGP at the moment.. We were treated last year to several multiple bike battles for wins, but that will come again as all the bikes level off and catch up to Ducati at the front.. Bring on the rest of 07 and definately 08!!

Oh and screw F1, stupid parade crap that is.. At least in MotoGP when you see footage of riders battling down the order you can see some passing going on.. F1, everyone follows and passes in the pit lane.. Ill pass on that ****e thanks..

[Gibbsy]

If motogp is in a lull, and I disagree that it is, then the blame can be laid at the foot of Yamaha, Honda and Michelin. It is their job to take the rules of the competition as they are and compete for the world title. Currently you'd have to argue that they aren't doing thier job.

[Ranger]

I agree that Moto GP races aren't what they are used to be. Recently all the riders have just spread further and further apart. Kurtis Roberts even got lapped.

In the 1980's and for the three decades before, you regularly saw half the field lapped, sometimes more than once.

Yes, the last three races have been boring, barely enough to claim someone has killed MotoGP.

[ChrisS]

it's not dead, it's, it's restin'! Remarkable series, the MotoGP