Mclaren cleared....for now *merged*

[wmcot]

your flights of fancy get more and more incredible

so, a Ferrari employee spills the beans that they are cheating and McLaren raise the issue with the FIA in a non-confrontational manner. They didn't shout "conspiracy" or "cheats" as Ferrari are now but asked for clarification. Nasty Ron

then, they instruct their employee that although they received proof of Ferrari cheating, they dont want to be in a situation where they receive any more information in the future and take steps to ensure this doesn't happen.

So, what exactly have they done wrong and why should Mike have been sacked for supplying proof of Ferrari cheating? A pat on the back I would have thought and if Ferrari are so pure, why did they not sack the head designer that tried to defraud the championship by allowing a moveable floor?

Speaking of flights of fancy!!! Do you really think Stepney sent the 780 pages to Coughlan because he was feeling guilty that Ferrari were using a flexible floor? Why would he go to McLaren? Wouldn't it be proper to go to the authorities? That's what anyone who felt his employer was doing something wrong would do. There are laws to protect you as a "whistleblower" in that case.

I think your definitions of whistleblowing and espionage are messed up.

[wmcot]

Here's an interesting technical matter which may be used in a court trial. Did Coughlan bill the copies to McLaren's account? If so, the copies are McLaren's property, not Coughlan's...just something to think about.

Even the title of this thread is incorrect - "McLaren cleared...for now" should actually be, "McLaren found GUILTY but go UNPUNISHED...for now"

Sorry.........and to think I'm a Tifosi!

I will now go and flagellate myself with a brembo brake pipe and ask our lord enzo for forgiveness.

[Bagwan]

Why did McLaren have to ask for a clarification from the FIA on whether the floor was legal ?
Does a "clarification" not mean that was not clear whether it was legal or not ?

Did they rewrite part of the code to close the loophole , or write an addendum , showing that , when Ferrari designed this innovation into thier cars , it wasn't illegal , but now was banned .


Let's get this straight right now .
Was Ferrari cheating under the rules ?

From what I understand about this subject , I would say no .


Can anyone offer evidence to the contrary ?

As to Costa saying it wouldn't have much effect , just what would you expect him to say ?
Perhaps he should have said "Oh , we're screwed now . We're goin' home ."?


They (and others) had found a way to interpret the rules and measurement standards to allow for such a suspension device .
We saw re-design all along the pit lane , except at McLaren , who suddenly , although out-classed in Melbourne , ran hot at the next races .

If they knew , and it is believed they received data a significant length of time ago , it is not just the idea that they had the info , but what they did , or perhaps more tellingly , what they didn't do with it .
By not revealing this earlier , it saw Coughlan and the team to go down the stiff floor road , not only in season , but also in testing .
That gave a distinct advantage to McLaren , not having to re-design like the others .
They had no need to go back to pre-flex floor design , nor did they have to negate all the costs of the testing with the flex-floor .

To have waited until they appeared to have seen it in Melbourne , so it had the maximum effect of de-stabilization on thier rivals , seems rather the icing on the cake .


Then it becomes rather a blind alley for Ferrari to wind through , with no way out .
Ron offered free rein to show how it had not affected the design , and in essence , it hadn't .
It appears it had had an effect on the others though , and that has Ferrari in a "catch-22" , and the FIA and Ron under a big shadow .

[jso1985]

Who asked for a severe punishment?
Any punishment would have been OK, even a fine.

Glad to read you'd be happy if they would have only been fined, from my point of view they shouldn't be punished in the championship if it hasn't been proved they used the data for their benefit, but they should have been fined.

But let's be honest, how many of you who are not happy with the FIA's decision would be still claiming McLaren has not been punished if they would have only been fined? I think most of you just want Ferrari to win the championship in an easier way

[Ian McC]

It's very intersting to go through this thread and see that people supply very logical arguments, and in all cases they agree in favouring the team they like the most. I would bet money that many here who are saying McLaren are not to blame, if the roles of the teams were reversed, would be here agressively calling for Ferrari banned for the season.

This display of "logic applied for the benefit of the team I like" shows very poorly on the forum's quality

Aye Tin, true enough indeed, and it has always been like that on here and no doubt always will, but hey, if we all agreed it wouldn't be a lot of fun would it

[BDunnell]

Why did McLaren have to ask for a clarification from the FIA on whether the floor was legal ?
Does a "clarification" not mean that was not clear whether it was legal or not ?

It may genuinely not have been clear — letter as opposed to spirit of the rules (and vice versa), and all that.

[raphael123]

Who asked for a severe punishment?
Any punishment would have been OK, even a fine.

Imagine you tell your kid that he is at fault because he broke the neighbor's window with the ball, but the next moment you buy him a new ball and let him start again. Do you think he understood that he was at fault? I highly doubt it.

Umm...a kid might not understand, but these are fully grown adults we are talking about. And if punishing them is to teach them what they did was wrong, then it really doesn't apply in this situation. There was nothing McLaren could have done to stop this happening - an individual who happened to work for them acted irresponsibly. McLaren knew nothing about this. They were found guilty - as they should have been, but a punishment, when it hard nothing to do with them, and which they didnt benefit from, would be harsh.

I can see why people are moaning that you can't be found guilty with no punishment, but in this instant, I'm glad common sense was used.

[raphael123]

The only thing that matters is if McLaren used Ferrari intelligence, not if they got faster or would not have been as fast without it.

If that's the case, then surely they should be punished. Coughlan is part of McLaren - unless he had the document and didn't read it

[raphael123]

No matter what the basis of the FIA verdict was, I agree with this statement. Otherwise, you start going down the road of races and championships being decided on the basis of hypotheticals — 'he would have won had he not retired on the last lap', and so on. It might seem a bit of a leap from this situation, but it's based on the same principle.

So you think Coughlan shouldn't be treated as part of McLaren?