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  1. #11
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    In the first line of his post LazioCenturion states that the statistics are only going back to 1979: "I compiled a list of the Driver's and Manufacturer's Champions back to 1979". I think he's aware the manufacturer stats are only complete since 1979, not since the start of the WRC, and as long as he doesn't claim otherwise, I don't see any problems.
    RallyBase Rallying Results: http://www.rallybase.nl/
    WRC results and classifications 1973-2006
    Also with ERC results 1992-2005.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kabouter
    In the first line of his post LazioCenturion states that the statistics are only going back to 1979: "I compiled a list of the Driver's and Manufacturer's Champions back to 1979". I think he's aware the manufacturer stats are only complete since 1979, not since the start of the WRC, and as long as he doesn't claim otherwise, I don't see any problems.
    Hi Tjeerd,
    I noticed that, but IMO statistics must be done on a representative period.
    Drivers' one are OK because Championship started in 79, but not Manufacturers.
    LazioCenturion you have done a big work numbers are OK but not Stats.
    I'm not aggressive in my posts :
    Thierry
    La violence est le dernier refuge de l'incompétence

  3. #13
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    The stats makes Sweden look rather good: it some consolation when thinking abt our positition in rallying of today
    Winner Best Signature Championship 2007! Winner of BSC 2008! Winner of BSC 2009!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kabouter
    I agree, the manufacturers are Japanese. It's a championship for manufacturers, not for teams.
    Then, wouldn't Ford's titles by that logic go to the USA?

  5. #15
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    A couple of things:

    1) I suppose one could add the 1973 to 1978 manufacturer's titles if you want. My stats focus was always on the driver's championship, so I have not done much with the preceeding 6 seasons.

    2) I am aware there are other sites with some of these stats. This was just a little posting along the lines of my stats for each rally.

    3) Nicky Grist did not actually win a co-driving title but took over half-way through Juha Kankkunen's 1993 season. So I suppose one could categorize that in several ways. (Juha Piironen was the initial co-driver until he had a stroke or embalysm or something like that).

    4) On the topic of Manufacturer's and Countries. I have seen on several sites, this stat listed in some form. Subaru, Mitsubishi and Toyota are Japanese manufactures and so that is why I labeled them as such.

    With Ford, I know they are an American Company. However, often the nation of record on the sames sites mentioned previously is Great Britain. So, I am not sure if Ford is incorporated in both countries or what. Thankfully my info is not set in stone, so if someone can clarify this, or any other piece of information, I would be glad to make adjustments.

    Thanks for all your feedback and help. I am just having fun.
    May God Protect Rally Drivers and Co-Drivers
    laziostatistics.atspace.com

  6. #16
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    I think you're doing excellent job LazioCenturion
    Another Flying Finn

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazioCenturion
    A couple of things:

    1) I suppose one could add the 1973 to 1978 manufacturer's titles if you want. My stats focus was always on the driver's championship, so I have not done much with the preceeding 6 seasons.

    2) I am aware there are other sites with some of these stats. This was just a little posting along the lines of my stats for each rally.

    3) Nicky Grist did not actually win a co-driving title but took over half-way through Juha Kankkunen's 1993 season. So I suppose one could categorize that in several ways. (Juha Piironen was the initial co-driver until he had a stroke or embalysm or something like that).

    4) On the topic of Manufacturer's and Countries. I have seen on several sites, this stat listed in some form. Subaru, Mitsubishi and Toyota are Japanese manufactures and so that is why I labeled them as such.

    With Ford, I know they are an American Company. However, often the nation of record on the sames sites mentioned previously is Great Britain. So, I am not sure if Ford is incorporated in both countries or what. Thankfully my info is not set in stone, so if someone can clarify this, or any other piece of information, I would be glad to make adjustments.

    Thanks for all your feedback and help. I am just having fun.
    Oh no, I am not going to tell anyone that Ford's titles belong to America, I would have my head cut off and served to Her Majesty on a silver platter.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazioCenturion
    With Ford, I know they are an American Company. However, often the nation of record on the sames sites mentioned previously is Great Britain. So, I am not sure if Ford is incorporated in both countries or what. Thankfully my info is not set in stone, so if someone can clarify this, or any other piece of information, I would be glad to make adjustments.
    By any corporate standard, Ford is wholly American. While they have historically had production facilities in the UK and Germany, there is no separate stock-issuing entity than Ford Motor Company in the US and the corporate profits (or losses) all roll up to the parent company.

    So I think if Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Toyota are considered Japanese, it seems equitable to attribute Ford's manufacturer wins to America, despite the fact that the new Focus isn't sold here, and most Americans have never seen a Focus WRC car. Strange indeed!

    Cool stuff, Lazio!

  9. #19
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    Even stranger considering Ford don't build any "Ford" brand cars in the UK anymore!
    I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorn240
    By any corporate standard, Ford is wholly American. While they have historically had production facilities in the UK and Germany, there is no separate stock-issuing entity than Ford Motor Company in the US and the corporate profits (or losses) all roll up to the parent company.
    In fact, there is. Or rather, was. Ford Motor Co had separate national arms for importing cars to various countries around the world and at least here in Finland, that importer was even listed in national stock exchange until Ford bought it out. Those days stock rules said that only companies registered and based in Finland were eligible for listing so Ford Finland was stock-issuing entity you speak of.

    However, FMC was the biggest shareholder and as I said, eventually bought the subsidiary off. And you're correct on that Ford is single group where all profits roll to US. Profits, because Ford's European operations are on green while US operations are at (great) loss at the moment.

    So, for all purposes and intentions, Ford should be counted as US entity.

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