2023 - Race 13 Belgium

[Bagwan]

The regulations do agree- you must provide a cars width and the onboard agree too if you bother looking closely enough, which I suspect you won't.

As for the Stewards, it matters not - a racing incident with them one day is a 5 second timed penalty the next.

I'm going to assume here , that you are referring to the corner before where the incident took place .

I didn't hear Lewis complain about being pushed off , and nor did I hear the stewards cite him for going off track in that corner .

It did set the stage , though .
Had Lewis been able to hold his line and not slide out into Sergio , there was no incident . He was unable to hold it because he was compromised on the way in by his rival .
His only choice was to slow down and concede the corner .

That's also what Checo was trying to achieve by moving in on the space Lewis needed to make that corner .


I found it a bit surprising that he got the points on his license , but he could have slowed , so as not to have slid out into a rival , putting him out of the race entirely .
It was a great show up to that moment , but that minor screw-up deserved the 5 seconds .

[Nitrodaze]

I'm going to assume here , that you are referring to the corner before where the incident took place .

I didn't hear Lewis complain about being pushed off , and nor did I hear the stewards cite him for going off track in that corner .

It did set the stage , though .
Had Lewis been able to hold his line and not slide out into Sergio , there was no incident . He was unable to hold it because he was compromised on the way in by his rival .
His only choice was to slow down and concede the corner .

That's also what Checo was trying to achieve by moving in on the space Lewis needed to make that corner .


I found it a bit surprising that he got the points on his license , but he could have slowed , so as not to have slid out into a rival , putting him out of the race entirely .
It was a great show up to that moment , but that minor screw-up deserved the 5 seconds .

I don't think slowing down would have avoid any sort of collision from occurring. Watch that section of the race again if you can. They were side by side for most of the way through that section. Common sense would say Perez should have given more room to reduce the risk of unforced error that could result in damage to his car. Chancces was always there that the car on the inside may lose downforce and drift outwards as a result.

Slowing down during a wheel-to-wheel battle is a sign of weakness and no driver with the bit between their teeth would consider it in the heat of the moment. That is simply racing as it should be. Besides, slowing down is even more dangerous, as cars behind are not expecting Hamilton to slow down.

Everyone who has commented about it found the penalty to be unfairly harsh.

[The Black Knight]

I'm going to assume here , that you are referring to the corner before where the incident took place .

I didn't hear Lewis complain about being pushed off , and nor did I hear the stewards cite him for going off track in that corner .

It did set the stage , though .
Had Lewis been able to hold his line and not slide out into Sergio , there was no incident . He was unable to hold it because he was compromised on the way in by his rival .
His only choice was to slow down and concede the corner .

That's also what Checo was trying to achieve by moving in on the space Lewis needed to make that corner .


I found it a bit surprising that he got the points on his license , but he could have slowed , so as not to have slid out into a rival , putting him out of the race entirely .
It was a great show up to that moment , but that minor screw-up deserved the 5 seconds .

Exactly he didn't leave enough room. The rules dictate the driver must also leave one car width’s space between his car and the edge of the track. The FIA have very clearly stated "For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track, but the kerbs are not" - at the point Lewis turned in (or just before it) there was moment where there was not one cars width to the edge of the track. He had to go over the kerb. And that is what caused his decision. I don't see why he should back out when Checo didn't give him enough room.

[Bagwan]

I don't think slowing down would have avoid any sort of collision from occurring. Watch that section of the race again if you can. They were side by side for most of the way through that section. Common sense would say Perez should have given more room to reduce the risk of unforced error that could result in damage to his car. Chancces was always there that the car on the inside may lose downforce and drift outwards as a result.

Slowing down during a wheel-to-wheel battle is a sign of weakness and no driver with the bit between their teeth would consider it in the heat of the moment. That is simply racing as it should be. Besides, slowing down is even more dangerous, as cars behind are not expecting Hamilton to slow down.

Everyone who has commented about it found the penalty to be unfairly harsh.

It is always going to be a risk to run around the outside of someone , and they both ran beside each other for a while without touching .

Even more risky , but within the rules as long as there is space for the other driver , is squeezing in around the outside in an effort to compromise the inside driver's line to force him to slow down knowing he can't make it around the tightened radius you've allowed .

You can argue that it was perhaps too much risk for Sergio to take , but given he was a nose ahead , it was his decision what line to take at that point .
Lewis could not hold that line , and slid outward into him because he was going too fast to make that radius .

It really is that simple . Lewis deserved the penalty .


I believe also , though , that Checo deserves a slap in the head from his team , for his action in the incident , as the very idea that he could get Hamilton to back out of it by squeezing him was never going to work and fraught with peril from the moment he thought it up .

[Bagwan]

Exactly he didn't leave enough room. The rules dictate the driver must also leave one car width’s space between his car and the edge of the track. The FIA have very clearly stated "For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track, but the kerbs are not" - at the point Lewis turned in (or just before it) there was moment where there was not one cars width to the edge of the track. He had to go over the kerb. And that is what caused his decision. I don't see why he should back out when Checo didn't give him enough room.

OK , now we're speaking of two different corners , but I get your point .
The squeeze I was referencing was Sergio moving right , just before Lewis sliding into him .

I think you're referencing the corner before the incident , which is a fair point .
The rules seem to be a little wishy-washy here , as we are led to believe that a driver must leave a car width beside him , yet he is not technically off track until his tire completely crosses the white line at the edge .

On some corners of some tracks , leaving enough room for a car means a few millimeters inside that white line as that's the line to aim for to be fast .

Under these rules , it seems he wasn't forced off completely so , no fault recorded in that corner .

It seems a little weird , but that seems to be the way it is .

[airshifter]

The onboards are very clear, and make it obvious that Checo doesn't squeeze Lewis at all. He takes a solid trajectory that leaves more than a car width, and doesn't so much as bobble or twitch towards Lewis at any time before impact. Lewis on the other hand, though completely on track with all four tires, tightens his turn and moves onto the curb some with his right tire, while increasing the gap between his car and Checo's.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/news-...gian-gp-sprint

You can clearly see the distance between the cars increase as Lewis cranks more right turn into the steering wheel. From the onboard with Sergio, it's rock solid, and with no additional steering input you can see the Merc moving farther inside, then outside as he gets into the wet and understeers.


This Twitter account shows the sequence in still photos from another angle, and you can see the alteration in the trajectory of the Merc as he goes inside further and compromises himself on the wet curb. You can also see that there is more than a cars width as Lewis understeers, and nearing two car widths before the contact takes place, since Sergio was sweeping through on the more conventional line and moving out on the track.

https://twitter.com/Aerodynamics_M1/...803008/photo/1


I'm too lazy to search for the onboard from Sergio, but having F1TV it was clear when viewed on a big screen that Sergio doesn't so much as twitch towards Lewis, he is in complete control and the car is planted. Lewis clearly adds the extra steering input that put him off track with no hint of Sergio closing the door any further. There was a YouTube video showing both onboards side and side and time synced as well.


If it's the claim of some that there wasn't a car width, provide any frame that shows that.



Lewis just blew it this time.

[airshifter]

I believe also , though , that Checo deserves a slap in the head from his team , for his action in the incident , as the very idea that he could get Hamilton to back out of it by squeezing him was never going to work and fraught with peril from the moment he thought it up .

As I said, from just the view shown on the coverage I have, I thought it was a racing incident with Sergio just as much at fault probably. But from the onboards he's in complete control, doesn't alter his trajectory, and always left more than adequate space per the rules. Lewis put himself in the wet, and lost control when he induced his understeer.

Hardly worth a slap to Checo for playing by the rules.

[Nitrodaze]

As I said, from just the view shown on the coverage I have, I thought it was a racing incident with Sergio just as much at fault probably. But from the onboards he's in complete control, doesn't alter his trajectory, and always left more than adequate space per the rules. Lewis put himself in the wet, and lost control when he induced his understeer.

Hardly worth a slap to Checo for playing by the rules.

A car's width of space is to the white line buddy. The fact that the Mercedes is forced onto the wet kerb is what we are referring to as squeezing and what caused the Mercedes to skid on wet patches on the kerb that resulted in the collision. It was a fair and hard fight, thus a racing incident that should not have been penalized if those stewards have any idea about wheel-to-wheel racing.

[Nitrodaze]

It is always going to be a risk to run around the outside of someone , and they both ran beside each other for a while without touching .

Even more risky , but within the rules as long as there is space for the other driver , is squeezing in around the outside in an effort to compromise the inside driver's line to force him to slow down knowing he can't make it around the tightened radius you've allowed .

You can argue that it was perhaps too much risk for Sergio to take , but given he was a nose ahead , it was his decision what line to take at that point .
Lewis could not hold that line , and slid outward into him because he was going too fast to make that radius .

It really is that simple . Lewis deserved the penalty .


I believe also , though , that Checo deserves a slap in the head from his team , for his action in the incident , as the very idea that he could get Hamilton to back out of it by squeezing him was never going to work and fraught with peril from the moment he thought it up .

With the budget cap becoming a talking point, damage to car at any team would not go unnoticed. Perez would need to clean up this side of his racing, l think.

[airshifter]

A car's width of space is to the white line buddy. The fact that the Mercedes is forced onto the wet kerb is what we are referring to as squeezing and what caused the Mercedes to skid on wet patches on the kerb that resulted in the collision. It was a fair and hard fight, thus a racing incident that should not have been penalized if those stewards have any idea about wheel-to-wheel racing.

Unless someone can show me a video or photo proving otherwise, the ones I've seen all show at least a car width to the white line. The onboard shows that Lewis moved without being pushed.