WRC main class in 2025

[wyler]

Correct. But there may be a middle ground where Rally2 gets more power and reinforced parts (like maybe driveshafts, brakes and shocks or something) but the cost is still lower than a WRC/Rally1.

agreed, but if you reinforce an r5 to become similar to an old spec wrc -as u said before- in a way is still a wrc! : )

anyway i'm convinced too there can be ways to spend less on a top tier car, just don't believe upgrading an r5 will work. it will take to design a new spec.

[skarderud]

An R5+ has 2 be slightly more power and aero, not new diff, shocks etc.

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[mknight]

Rally1 (barely) kept Ford and Hyundai from leaving. They were about 3 years too late to keep Citroen or to get Skoda to join (Skoda was attending the technical rules meetings in I believe 2018 with the interest of joining).

Imo Rally2+ could keep about same number of manus, but certainly won't attract new big ones.

Fully electric is the only thing that can attract new manus. Adding artificial sound is the only real obstacle, but seeing how super complicated and advanced rules they did for hybrid power delivery I don't see it as difficult to specify sound levels and their relation to throttle/brakes/liftoff.

With regards to rest of rules there should be limits on power draw from battery (similar to restrictor size now). Most of the other rules are not engine related (aero, difs, suspension travel)
Battery should, at least at first, be same for all.
The size should be enough to make a single stage of up to 40km, but not much more. With focus on fast charging (400 kW ish) of a few mins at multiple stops. That way you also don't have many cars at the charging stop at same time. With 10 ish top cars you will have 3-4 charging at same time.

Before people bring up F1....F1s image is "the best" car with no real relation to production cars, looking completely alien. Rally car image is "same" car as you can buy on normal roads.

[Oraamat]

Fully electric is the only thing that can attract new manus.

My thoughts exactly. I dont like full electric either, but i think that Fia were hoplessly late with hybrid. 2017 spec cars should have been hybrid and 2022 spec cars should have come full electric. That my opinion.

And if we talk about that publicity, fans, drama etc. Then its double sided sword in my opinion. On one hand some say that going electric will lose spectators, but other hand watching 2.5 manus fighting is getting boring aswell and probably will lose spectators aswell. Im so happy that Ott is in Msport next year. So every team have atleast one fast driver and there should be something to watch and spectate.

[denkimi]

Fully electric is the only thing that can attract new manus.

You are missing the actual point here.

What attracts manufacturers is publicity. What creates publicity is fans watching. And what attracts fans is spectacle and drama.

Hyundai happily pays much more to sponsor the football WK in qatar than they do to sponsor rally, because it gives them more exposure.

Going electric, as electric cars are today, will just cause a big loss in spectators, making it even less attractive to manus.

Rally shouldn't care too much bout manufacturers, they must put what fans want in the first place. Lots of fans will attract sponsors and manufacturers, not the other way around. That's what made group B such a succes.

[Sulland]

You are missing the actual point here.

What attracts manufacturers is publicity. What creates publicity is fans watching. And what attracts fans is spectacle and drama.

I tend to agree.
A gamechanger would be to get a rally version of "drive to survive"

Interrest of F1 has exploded since they got that series, why not also in rally, where the best drivers are and many more areas of drama.

[mknight]

You are missing the actual point here.

What attracts manufacturers is publicity. What creates publicity is fans watching. And what attracts fans is spectacle and drama.

Hyundai happily pays much more to sponsor the football WK in qatar than they do to sponsor rally, because it gives them more exposure.

Going electric, as electric cars are today, will just cause a big loss in spectators, making it even less attractive to manus.

Rally shouldn't care too much bout manufacturers, they must put what fans want in the first place. Lots of fans will attract sponsors and manufacturers, not the other way around. That's what made group B such a succes.

2017 WRCs were basically Group B revival. They worked to attract manus and fans for 3 years.

But by end of 2019 the manus started dropping and new ones (Skoda) did not join.
Did the spectacle and drama drop? Nope. Did fan numbers drop? (I don't have facts but I doubt it)


So how come they dropped? According to your explanation everything should have been fine?

How would redoing the same thing again re-attract manus? It wont.


Rally is a combination of spectacle, drama and "normal looking" cars on "normal" roads. You can't just drop one of the sake of the other. F1 or WEC never had the last two parts. They will always have closer fights (cause the cars are on track at same time) and things like Rallycross will always have more "fast" spectacle.

With regards to spectators and electric it depends:
- electric cars can be spectacular in different ways than petrol ones and for a short time you will have "novelty" effect
- for the future you need to look at younger spectators, the 60+ old men talking about 80s will not be main customer group much longer. When I take my son to rally he wonders why there are no electric cars when everyone drives them and they accelerate much faster.

I tend to agree.
A gamechanger would be to get a rally version of "drive to survive"

Interrest of F1 has exploded since they got that series, why not also in rally, where the best drivers are and many more areas of drama.

This I totally agree with. It hugely boosted F1 popularity, last time rally had anything similar was "Engineering world rally" in 2007ish.

Promotion is not directly related with rules though.

[[WRCRR]]

for the future you need to look at younger spectators, the 60+ old men talking about 80s will not be main customer group much longer. When I take my son to rally he wonders why there are no electric cars when everyone drives them and they accelerate much faster.

A key point many here seem to miss. For the record - I am also part of this old geezer group, and love all the nostalgia about "the olden days" - but future will not be defined by the past.

[seb_sh]

You are missing the actual point here.

What attracts manufacturers is publicity. What creates publicity is fans watching. And what attracts fans is spectacle and drama.

Hyundai happily pays much more to sponsor the football WK in qatar than they do to sponsor rally, because it gives them more exposure.

Going electric, as electric cars are today, will just cause a big loss in spectators, making it even less attractive to manus.

Rally shouldn't care too much bout manufacturers, they must put what fans want in the first place. Lots of fans will attract sponsors and manufacturers, not the other way around. That's what made group B such a succes.

This right here. It's time motorsport stops pretending to be road relevant and embrace the entertainment role. WEC is doing that perfectly with the new regulations. The performance is capped and the cars balanced with the goal of creating close racing. The manufacturer's know for sure there won't be an escalating cost due to a development war and they can plan in the expense. Like it or not that's the best way forward for motorsport, sadly the WRC is lagging behind as usual.

[WRCStan]

This thread has cycled back to the evergreen how to attract new manufacturers question, again.

They're not coming whatever the car spec, cost of the car or Netflix shows (loooooooool), or free coverage. Name the candidates.