WRC Vision 2012

[jonas_mcrae]

I have a question, would a S2000 or a Gr. P improved to be WRC, would actually be as fast as the real or actual WRC cars? for example in the south american rally championship, i heard of a gr. N Lancer being converted to be WRC, but not being even close to the pace to an older, but however proper WRC Impreza. I know this new rules say that all WRC have to be based on s2000 but what would happen to old WRC? just be banned?

[Sulland]

Sulland, not to sidetrack the thread here too much, but when you say like USA after 'motorsport need to be made so cheap that everyone can buy one or more cars and set up a team' you should be aware that in US over the last 8-9 years has steadily become so expensive that only independently wealthy people can afford to afford do do more than 2 or 3 events.

The trend is not reversing.

When used the US as an example I was more refering to circuit racing, where everyone can set up a team in NASCAR, Champ Car or IRL not having to engineer and build a complete car, but can buy it and the package is pretty "low tech". Keep it that way !!

American rallying I know little of I am afraid, exept the coming star Travis Pastrana is in a Subaru WRX.

WRC is moving in the direction of F1, and it is today only the Factory teams that have the cars to win, and knowledge to keep them running at top notch level over time without problems. And many times even they do not understand these animals, and Subary is probably the best example !!

This way of thinking is behind my standpoint of trying to simplify the WRC so much, that a good mechaninc can understand them and keep them running over time !!

For us spectators, the show would be the same, or even improve with more teams and drivers with a shot at the victory !

[jparker]

Sulland, not to sidetrack the thread here too much, but when you say like USA after 'motorsport need to be made so cheap that everyone can buy one or more cars and set up a team' you should be aware that in US over the last 8-9 years has steadily become so expensive that only independently wealthy people can afford to afford do do more than 2 or 3 events.

Yes janvanvurpa, you are correct and I don't think rallying will ever be accessible to everyone, but still rally cars in North America are good example to support this thread. They are still highly modified and powerful, but just more "down to earth" machines. Yes, they are getting more expensive, but nowhere near the cost of WRCar.

[JAM]

My opinion

1. Agree that WRC cars must be the top. S2000 are good to regional championships and to a second level on WRC.

2. Agree that WRC cars must push sometihing on the manufacturers to bring more interesting cars. The japanese manufacturers are the only who have N4 4WD cars, is amazing as the european don't have it. It seems that there is no market for these cars...

3. THis possibility of upgarde and downgarde cars is something that i don't se the useful od this measure.

4. I don't know why in FIA people still think on the 300hp limitation. This is a good liomitation to S2000 ir Group N but not for WRC cars. WRC cars are near the 400hp and don't see any problem on it. Why to limit? The redution to 1800cc is aceptable, but to 1600 is not aceptable.

5. The sound is somethuing that WRC cars lost many yeras ago. They don'ty seem as a real race cars. Better and bigger sound would be welcome. Why to not have the ALS making that noise that the Group A Escort Cosworth had in the past?

6. Standard transmissions are a good measure to reduce costs. I defende that the cost reduction is an urgent measure to save WRC.

7. They already had a bussiness plan 4 or 5 years ago and we see what happened and is happening. We need a business plan but it must be folowed by good and interesting rallyes and good cars to have a good product to show to the audiences.

8. Diesel out of WRC... ok, acepted. The biofuel is something in wich FIA must had workek in. They should gave the example but are a bit late on it.

9. The only service park created compact rallyes that are very expensive to organizers. As we saw in Argentina with the Buenos Aires SS, is not a big problem to move the structure from one place to another. If manufacturers want they do it, if they don'ty want they put a lot of problems on in.

10. The changes must be studied and must being implemented during the time. Not all at aonce. The stability is very important. Rules to last years are good to the sport.

[Doon]

WRC is moving in the direction of F1, and it is today only the Factory teams that have the cars to win, and knowledge to keep them running at top notch level over time without problems.!

Hasn't this been the case for many years? I mean when did the last privateer win a WRC rally, late 80's? Its just more apparent now as we have less works teams, and only two that can win a rally.

[Livewireshock]

This proposal has great merit & follows a logical stream. One chassis with two levels of engine/drivetrain is a good one.

The control elements within S2000 has shown the speed & relative ease manufacturers have in releasing a competitive vehicle. To have an optional increase of engine/turbo/brakes/suspension/gearbox/aero package to step up to a WRC level makes sense.

It lowers development costs with a common chassis. The emphasis stops being a case of keeping everything in house with in a singular factory race team but allows teams from various places to fabricate & construct a vehicle in the way S2000 cars are being built worldwide.

This is concept is hardly revolutionary. This is exactly the standards that NASCAR runs between their main NEXTEL CUP cars & lower level BUSCH NATIONAL cars. Speedway runs sprintcars with a common chassis with various engine sizes.

It allows many competitors to scale up or down as they see fit or as budgets allow. Off the shelf components, either control items or factory, would allow individual teams to make the changes as required. Regional teams could compete with an S2000 for the local championship but upgrade it for when the WRC has an event locally, then go back to S2000 after they have finished.

Having a N/A S2500 or S3000 car, as has been proposed by other forum members, do not allow for a large enough difference between themselves & current S2000 cars. It is for this reason that turbo power may have a place. Also an uprated control drivetrain would be needed too. Lastly an increased level of aero package would increase performance again for the WRC cars as well as distinguishing themselves from the lower S2000 cars.

My final point that some people also do not realise to, not only should the cars look different & go faster. The uprated WRC car should be a much different car to setup, to drive & handle. That raises the skill needed to compete at that level rather than just being a faster version of an S2000. Aero downforce, tyres & other components would help in this area.

[AndyRAC]

This proposal has great merit & follows a logical stream. One chassis with two levels of engine/drivetrain is a good one.

The control elements within S2000 has shown the speed & relative ease manufacturers have in releasing a competitive vehicle. To have an optional increase of engine/turbo/brakes/suspension/gearbox/aero package to step up to a WRC level makes sense.

It lowers development costs with a common chassis. The emphasis stops being a case of keeping everything in house with in a singular factory race team but allows teams from various places to fabricate & construct a vehicle in the way S2000 cars are being built worldwide.

This is concept is hardly revolutionary. This is exactly the standards that NASCAR runs between their main NEXTEL CUP cars & lower level BUSCH NATIONAL cars. Speedway runs sprintcars with a common chassis with various engine sizes.

It allows many competitors to scale up or down as they see fit or as budgets allow. Off the shelf components, either control items or factory, would allow individual teams to make the changes as required. Regional teams could compete with an S2000 for the local championship but upgrade it for when the WRC has an event locally, then go back to S2000 after they have finished.

Having a N/A S2500 or S3000 car, as has been proposed by other forum members, do not allow for a large enough difference between themselves & current S2000 cars. It is for this reason that turbo power may have a place. Also an uprated control drivetrain would be needed too. Lastly an increased level of aero package would increase performance again for the WRC cars as well as distinguishing themselves from the lower S2000 cars.

My final point that some people also do not realise to, not only should the cars look different & go faster. The uprated WRC car should be a much different car to setup & handle to drive & handle. That raises the skill needed to compete at that level rather than just being a faster version of an S2000. Aero downforce, tyres & other components would help in this area.

I quite agree, sounds sensible, 1 car that can be used for National/Regional events then uprated for WRC events, yeah I'm all for that. Are standard or control spefications part of this to cut costs. But would the manufacturers be in favour of this??

[JAM]

I quite agree, sounds sensible, 1 car that can be used for National/Regional events then uprated for WRC events, yeah I'm all for that. Are standard or control spefications part of this to cut costs. But would the manufacturers be in favour of this??

Do you want to know how should be a WRC car? A S2000 with 2litres turbo engine. It would be simple and more cheaper than the actual WRC. How much would cost? Probably not much more than a S2000.

[Bjorn240]

My opinion

9. The only service park created compact rallyes that are very expensive to organizers. As we saw in Argentina with the Buenos Aires SS, is not a big problem to move the structure from one place to another.

That's what you got from Argentina? I think that I, along with the other 147 people on the "blue" plane, would tend to disagree. Remote servicing would be good, but let's make sure it all happens within 150km of the regular service park.

[Livewireshock]

I quite agree, sounds sensible, 1 car that can be used for National/Regional events then uprated for WRC events, yeah I'm all for that. Are standard or control spefications part of this to cut costs. But would the manufacturers be in favour of this??

Control components are a key part of the negotiations. What, which & how is not decided yet. Depends on the final structure of the car they decide on.

If it is a level playing field, there is no reason why manufacturers would not accept it, just like the range of manufacturers that have developed S2000 cars.

The main thing would be the ease of conversion from S2000 to the "WRC" level car. Thus Fiat, Peugeot, VW, Toyota, Ford et al could just up the level to WRC level at a fraction of the cost of developing a current WRC car. All available to individual teams rather than one works team.

It would see the spread of the category happen alot quicker. Customer cars from a wide range of teams would be available unlike the few WRC cars that are built each year.