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  1. #71
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    Hate the game not the player. Ogier hasn't broken anyrules. Everyone needs to untwist their knickers and move on. It makes the season more interesting.

  2. #72
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    I fully understand Ford's tactics. When I was watching the final stage and realised that the games were about to happen when Ogier didn't appear, it brought a smile to my face. Not because I am a great fan of team orders/road order games as such, but because it is something a bit harsh and clever you kind of want to see these teams doing when trying to gain the tiniest advantage over each other. And like pointed out already, it was very mild compared to some of the games that have happened in the past in WRC. I was reminded of Rautenbach waiting 13 minutes on the side of the road in 2009 Poland for Loeb to gain one extra Championship point. But unlike with Loeb, these team games also go well with the image of Ogier which some like and some don't, I like it. It would be more boring if he always behaved himself. Grönholm said in some interview a couple of years ago Loeb was actually a really nice guy, but he didn't have anything good at all to say about Ogier as a person. But for me as a viewer it just creates that extra something buzz if a World Champion behaves a bit cocky or is a bit rough on the edges. I don't mind it, like I don't mind well-behaving Champions either for that matter. They might have won all the Championships for the past 14 years between them (!) but in this regard Loeb and Ogier are completely different characters and I think it's just great.

    Second rally of the season is a bit early for these games, but I think Ford, like I do, sees Ogier as their only realistic chance for the World Championship already at this point of the year. At least I would be very surprised to see Evans mounting a serious Championship challenge this year. There is simply nothing yet that would suggest Elfyn being able to perform on a consistently high level over a whole season. So essentially, he is number 2 to Ogier at the moment. If such an event occured early this season already where Evans leads on the final day and Ogier is second, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford tells Evans to let Ogier by. I would actually be more surprised if they wouldn't do that. If we look in the past, M-Sport has potentially thrown drivers titles away by not starting to play these games early enough in the season. Ford let Latvala win ahead of Hirvonen in Sardinia 2009, Hirvonen lost the title to Loeb by one point at the end of the year. And by Sardinia 2009 Latvala was well out of Championship contention, having had a disastrous start for that season. Citroen's own games to favour Loeb and Latvala himself further helped Loeb's Championship cause in Poland. Also in 2007 Ford let Hirvonen win ahead of Grönholm in Norway, although Hirvonen was quite a clear number 2 driver for that season and Grönholm ended up having a tight Championship battle with Loeb. Maybe Malcolm doesn't want a repeat of these years.

    Anyway, the main problem here is the regulations which make these games possible and the power stage concept itself. I have never been a fan of the power stage, although I understand the added excitement it can bring to some events to see drivers pushing maximum attack on the final stage, which wouldn't happen in some situations. But on some other events it's completely unnecessary. Also in modern WRC you probably get more final stages in a calendar year with tight fights for a position than not. All in all it just feels artificial to me to award five points for winning a one stage time attack. It goes against the concept of rallying to drive fast but consistently over a long distance. Anyone can do one short stage fast and just see if they are lucky enough to make it to the end without making any mistakes. But to do 20-30 stages consistently fast without any mistakes is a much more interesting challenge and what the sport is about. Even Formula 1 has never done anything as "plastic" yet in terms of handing out World Championship points. We are yet to see points being awarded for the fastest final lap of the race, but maybe Liberty Media is already working on it if they have been following WRC in the past few years.

  3. Likes: Allez Andruet (20th February 2018),electroliquid (20th February 2018),janvanvurpa (20th February 2018),kamei (20th February 2018),Kaps (19th February 2018)
  4. #73
    Senior Member A FONDO's Avatar
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    I say, reduce Power Stage points back to 3-2-1 now VW is gone.

  5. Likes: Kaps (19th February 2018),Rally Power (21st February 2018),Rallyper (20th February 2018)
  6. #74
    Senior Member Kaps's Avatar
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    Well, AnttiK7, that's a nice change!

    I agree with what you said here 100%!

    A FONDO, I also agree with what you said! Or, even better, I say let's scrap the Power stage points altogether!
    Drive as if your life depends on it...because it does!

    2005 WRC Pickems Champion!

  7. #75
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    It was both. Of course he gained an advantage, but not good for the sport.
    Anyone remember, when Sainz stopped just before finish in Australia to get a better startposition (199?).he penalised for unsportmanship behaviour or similar. This could be applied now.
    But he got away with it. I think it was stupid, because him being so much fasterthan anyone else in VW days was the reason the rule was changed

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by COD View Post
    It was both. Of course he gained an advantage, but not good for the sport.
    Anyone remember, when Sainz stopped just before finish in Australia to get a better startposition (199?).he penalised for unsportmanship behaviour or similar. This could be applied now.
    But he got away with it. I think it was stupid, because him being so much fasterthan anyone else in VW days was the reason the rule was changed
    Sainz was excluded because he stopped between the yellow and red markers at the time control at the end of the stage. Other drivers slowed but not stopped and didn't get penalized. But slowing down to get a better road position was common in those days and imo just as wrong from what Ogier did if not worse. New rules fixed that behavior, and I think they need to have a better think about PS rules too. Less points or penalties for starting out of order to actual PS time would work. As it stands it's fair game.

  9. #77
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    Am now thinking back to one very dusty event, final stage and we had a handful of seconds over the car in front.
    We shuffle forwards, the codriver ahead gets out to talk to the marshal handling time cards - unusual as you normally stay strapped in the car, and ooooph she stumbles and falls to the ground holding a twisted ankle.
    Complaining of feeling faint she unzips her overalls to “get some fresh air”.
    After a couple of minutes she thanks all the marshals who have been VERY attentive to this half nekkid very attractive codriver, she zips herself back up, winks back at us, hops back in the car and gets their start time - and of course, all that dust has now settled. Off they set making the most of a now clear stage.
    Now, I’m not saying Nicolas Gilsoul needs to flaunt his manliness in Mexico, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get an advantage.

  10. Likes: AnttiL (20th February 2018),steve.mandzij (20th February 2018)
  11. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiK7 View Post

    Second rally of the season is a bit early for these games, but I think Ford, like I do, sees Ogier as their only realistic chance for the World Championship already at this point of the year.
    I agree with much you say but in terms of being early for such games, in championships it is always in my mind that every point scored, whether in Round 1 or the final one is worth the same at the end of the year. Those 4 points could easily be the difference between winning the championship or not. I have much admiration for M-Sport for working out that this was possible in order to give their no 1 driver the best chance of points. Fast driving can win rallies but also smart thinking can win titles.

  12. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMorel View Post
    Am now thinking back to one very dusty event, final stage and we had a handful of seconds over the car in front.
    We shuffle forwards, the codriver ahead gets out to talk to the marshal handling time cards - unusual as you normally stay strapped in the car, and ooooph she stumbles and falls to the ground holding a twisted ankle.
    Complaining of feeling faint she unzips her overalls to “get some fresh air”.
    After a couple of minutes she thanks all the marshals who have been VERY attentive to this half nekkid very attractive codriver, she zips herself back up, winks back at us, hops back in the car and gets their start time - and of course, all that dust has now settled. Off they set making the most of a now clear stage.
    Now, I’m not saying Nicolas Gilsoul needs to flaunt his manliness in Mexico, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get an advantage.
    The male version of that move that I have witnessed in the UK is a nav who kept a plastic box in the car which he filled with mashed up bread and baked beans. As he pulled up to the control he would stuff a load in his mouth ready to feign a bout of nausea out the car door, get out for some fresh air, then back in ready for the stage with a nice dust free gap!

  13. #80
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    Regarding the advantage Ogier gained, it's nothing anybody anywhere over 10th place could do to gain points effectively, because you'd lose the points from any other position with smaller gaps ahead and behind. However, it does raise another issue: the tenth placed driver now has a nearly sure way to score more points than 9th or 8th every single time on the PS. Maybe there can't be a rule preventing this that wouldn't exclude the bottom half of point scorers from PS points but it does raise an issue.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  14. Likes: AnttiL (20th February 2018)

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