Page 9 of 22 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 214
  1. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Lithuania
    Posts
    46
    Like
    53
    Liked 51 Times in 13 Posts
    The fact, that these kind of topics emerge 6 years after Loeb retired, makes him the greatest

  2. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    489
    Like
    0
    Liked 282 Times in 139 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    No. Again - in this sport there's no such statistics which is comparable between the drivers of different eras, thus the claim of being "statistically the best" is irrelevant.
    Facts are never wrong. And the hard facts say he is the best of all time in nearly every comparisson. Those statistics are the only objective way to compare drivers, all other things you can come up with are opinions.

    You can claim that other drivers where better, and you might be correct.
    But that's not what the statistics say.

  3. Likes: cali (30th January 2018),Kaps (30th January 2018)
  4. #83
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tholt-Y-Will
    Posts
    4,470
    Like
    935
    Liked 454 Times in 266 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcco View Post
    The fact, that these kind of topics emerge 6 years after Loeb retired, makes him the greatest
    Retired? He's still active in motorsport....he just changed disciplines.
    WRC: On the long way to Recovery............
    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  5. Likes: pantealex (30th January 2018)
  6. #84
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    313
    Like
    386
    Liked 421 Times in 170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Facts are never wrong.
    Correct. And the fact is, that we have no comparable statistics.

    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Those statistics are the only objective way to compare drivers, all other things you can come up with are opinions.
    Ofcourse they're not objective. If we talk about rallysport (the format or formats that have been used since early 60's - which includes rallies with special stages and the so-called endurance events which didn't have them) we have to look at much longer period than the one the statistics are showing us. That should be pretty clear for everyone who's done any kind of research within this great sport.

    Example: Now if you look at the statistics, they say that Loeb has 169 WRC starts and Hannu Mikkola has 123 WRC starts. But ofcourse everyone with any kind of rallying knowledge understands that this doesn't tell you anything, i.e. comparing those two figures as "statistics" is total nonsense.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  7. Likes: pantealex (30th January 2018)
  8. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    315
    Like
    11
    Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Andruet View Post
    What is it with the wording people tend to use these days? Talking about a four-time World Champ, and some Estonian jerk feels it's correct to use phrase "utterly crap"... o tempora, o mores.

    But anyway, going back to the subject... I'm astonished about how silly arguments (for and against Le Maestro) some forum members, who otherwise seem to understand the sport, have used here. Is Loeb the greatest of all time...? Well, could be, and I'd probably vote for him myself as well, but it's not like a no-contest. First of all, when we're comparing Loeb vs. other greats of this great sport, we're comparing guys of different sports. The sport Loeb mastered didn't exist in the 70's and vice versa. And oh how I feel nauseous everytime someone mentions that Loeb has so and so many wins in WRC... That has to be the most irrelevant statistics there is (on this specific topic).

    That all being said, the only way to make any kind of comparision between the greats of different eras, is to compare the achievements within that era. I don't have the time now to specify all the elements that need be taken into consideration for each one, but the conclusion is, that when we're discussing about who's the greatest rally driver there's ever been, it all comes down to four gentlemen (in alphabetical order):

    Sebastien Loeb
    Juha Kankkunen
    Hannu Mikkola
    Carlos Sainz


    You can make case for each one, depending on what you want to emphasize.
    Why Hannu and Carlos and not Mækinen.

  9. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    315
    Like
    11
    Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
    Okay guys, one more time.
    Loeb has won 78 WRC rally. But it is also something else he has most of, and it's really very illogical. Some other drivers should have the most of this.
    Ogier showed the same property in the season 2017. Meek showed the total opposite.
    What am I aiming for?
    This is what makes him the best of all time. But it seems that Ogier has the same property.

  10. #87
    Senior Member stefanvv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    5,991
    Like
    1,341
    Liked 889 Times in 621 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    Okay guys, one more time.
    Loeb has won 78 WRC rally. But it is also something else he has most of, and it's really very illogical. Some other drivers should have the most of this.
    Ogier showed the same property in the season 2017. Meek showed the total opposite.
    What am I aiming for?
    This is what makes him the best of all time. But it seems that Ogier has the same property.
    Brain?
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

  11. Likes: steve.mandzij (30th January 2018)
  12. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    434
    Like
    0
    Liked 110 Times in 75 Posts
    I think that Ogier is aiming to shit all your brains out to become best of all. 😂 just wait couple of years, when he will have 13 wrc titles (probably 3 different manus-if skoda get in he will get the seat). Probably wec title and some others I don't know what he is interesting in.

    PS: maybe I should post this in Crystal Ball

  13. #89
    Senior Member Allez Andruet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    313
    Like
    386
    Liked 421 Times in 170 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    Why Hannu and Carlos and not Mækinen.
    Briefly: Tommi's career on the absolute top was relatively short compared to those two.
    ku ois neljä pyörää ku vetäis ni ois vähän eri sekunnit kyllä pätkillä, sen mä takaan

  14. Likes: pantealex (31st January 2018)
  15. #90
    Senior Member RAS007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    562
    Like
    164
    Liked 166 Times in 90 Posts
    There has been some fairly amusing hyperventilating on this thread over the last few days. My personal favourites: calling Kankkunen "crap", and stating that to compare Loeb with Makinen or Kankkunen is "laughable". These are patently ridiculous statements. There are more than a few Loeb lovers on these boards, of which I am not one, but lets try and keep the discussion within the bounds of reality. Loeb is certainly one of the greatest rally drivers who ever lived. For me, he's not the best ever, but thats a matter of personal opinion. I think that part of the reason Loeb evokes such extreme reactions in people is that the Loeb era, or at least the second half of it, was probably one of the worst eras in the WRC, with very little competition or manufacturer participation and a declining visibility for the sport. Thankfully, those days seem to be long gone.

  16. Likes: Allez Andruet (30th January 2018),pantealex (31st January 2018),stefanvv (30th January 2018)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •