How good is Sebastien Loeb?

[Marcco]

The fact, that these kind of topics emerge 6 years after Loeb retired, makes him the greatest

[denkimi]

No. Again - in this sport there's no such statistics which is comparable between the drivers of different eras, thus the claim of being "statistically the best" is irrelevant.

Facts are never wrong. And the hard facts say he is the best of all time in nearly every comparisson. Those statistics are the only objective way to compare drivers, all other things you can come up with are opinions.

You can claim that other drivers where better, and you might be correct.
But that's not what the statistics say.

[AndyRAC]

The fact, that these kind of topics emerge 6 years after Loeb retired, makes him the greatest

Retired? He's still active in motorsport....he just changed disciplines.

[Allez Andruet]

Facts are never wrong.

Correct. And the fact is, that we have no comparable statistics.

Those statistics are the only objective way to compare drivers, all other things you can come up with are opinions.

Ofcourse they're not objective. If we talk about rallysport (the format or formats that have been used since early 60's - which includes rallies with special stages and the so-called endurance events which didn't have them) we have to look at much longer period than the one the statistics are showing us. That should be pretty clear for everyone who's done any kind of research within this great sport.

Example: Now if you look at the statistics, they say that Loeb has 169 WRC starts and Hannu Mikkola has 123 WRC starts. But ofcourse everyone with any kind of rallying knowledge understands that this doesn't tell you anything, i.e. comparing those two figures as "statistics" is total nonsense.

[Coach 2]

What is it with the wording people tend to use these days? Talking about a four-time World Champ, and some Estonian jerk feels it's correct to use phrase "utterly crap"... o tempora, o mores.

But anyway, going back to the subject... I'm astonished about how silly arguments (for and against Le Maestro) some forum members, who otherwise seem to understand the sport, have used here. Is Loeb the greatest of all time...? Well, could be, and I'd probably vote for him myself as well, but it's not like a no-contest. First of all, when we're comparing Loeb vs. other greats of this great sport, we're comparing guys of different sports. The sport Loeb mastered didn't exist in the 70's and vice versa. And oh how I feel nauseous everytime someone mentions that Loeb has so and so many wins in WRC... That has to be the most irrelevant statistics there is (on this specific topic).

That all being said, the only way to make any kind of comparision between the greats of different eras, is to compare the achievements within that era. I don't have the time now to specify all the elements that need be taken into consideration for each one, but the conclusion is, that when we're discussing about who's the greatest rally driver there's ever been, it all comes down to four gentlemen (in alphabetical order):

Sebastien Loeb
Juha Kankkunen
Hannu Mikkola
Carlos Sainz

You can make case for each one, depending on what you want to emphasize.

Why Hannu and Carlos and not Mækinen.

[Coach 2]

Okay guys, one more time.
Loeb has won 78 WRC rally. But it is also something else he has most of, and it's really very illogical. Some other drivers should have the most of this.
Ogier showed the same property in the season 2017. Meek showed the total opposite.
What am I aiming for?
This is what makes him the best of all time. But it seems that Ogier has the same property.

[stefanvv]

Okay guys, one more time.
Loeb has won 78 WRC rally. But it is also something else he has most of, and it's really very illogical. Some other drivers should have the most of this.
Ogier showed the same property in the season 2017. Meek showed the total opposite.
What am I aiming for?
This is what makes him the best of all time. But it seems that Ogier has the same property.

Brain?

[ESTR]

I think that Ogier is aiming to shit all your brains out to become best of all. 😂 just wait couple of years, when he will have 13 wrc titles (probably 3 different manus-if skoda get in he will get the seat). Probably wec title and some others I don't know what he is interesting in.

PS: maybe I should post this in Crystal Ball

[Allez Andruet]

Why Hannu and Carlos and not Mækinen.

Briefly: Tommi's career on the absolute top was relatively short compared to those two.

[RAS007]

There has been some fairly amusing hyperventilating on this thread over the last few days. My personal favourites: calling Kankkunen "crap", and stating that to compare Loeb with Makinen or Kankkunen is "laughable". These are patently ridiculous statements. There are more than a few Loeb lovers on these boards, of which I am not one, but lets try and keep the discussion within the bounds of reality. Loeb is certainly one of the greatest rally drivers who ever lived. For me, he's not the best ever, but thats a matter of personal opinion. I think that part of the reason Loeb evokes such extreme reactions in people is that the Loeb era, or at least the second half of it, was probably one of the worst eras in the WRC, with very little competition or manufacturer participation and a declining visibility for the sport. Thankfully, those days seem to be long gone.