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  1. #151
    Senior Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
    My short answer to the original question "How good was Sebastien Loeb?" would be "very" (and I would also correct the original question by saying that he still is good rather than was good!).

    I personally think that direct comparisons are very difficult, if not impossible. Drivers who were very successful in one era would not have fared as well in others as the design of the cars - and the optimum driving style for getting the best out of them - evolved: you don't have to look too hard to find plenty of examples of drivers that fall into that category.

    I do think that Loeb would be held in higher esteem if there had been more competition (i.e. more manufacturers) in his prime seasons, but for me he was an incredible driver, in the right team in the perfect era for his driving style. Of course a change in team would have allowed him to demonstrate versatility (which I think is the mark of a true great), but the options weren't really there at the time. I also agree with previous comments that it's a real shame we never got see a full season of Loeb/Citroen versus Ogier/VW.
    Yeah I agree, thats a good summary.

    To expand on your second point, part of the reason Kankkunen is rated so highly by many is because he was successful across such a wide range of car formats - 2wd Group 4, 2wd Group B, 4wd Group B, Group A, and WRC. Only driver to win championships with 3 different manufacturers, his first WRC rally wins were in 1985 and his last were in 1999 - 14 years later! Coming out of retirement to finish 8th at Rally Finland 2010 at the age of 51 was pretty respectable too.

    I guess you're right that Loeb could have changed manufacturer if he really wanted to prove a point, but even if he had done that the WRC car format stayed pretty similar right through his career (changes in engine size/power and active vs passive diffs but they've all been 4wd cars of similar architecture) so he never had the chance to show the same adaptability. And vice versa we will never know what results Kankkunen might have had if he had spent his whole career in the same team like Loeb did, often with the biggest budget and probably best car that was so well suited to him.

    So I'll just say I think they're both among the best ever and leave it at that.

  2. Likes: RAS007 (2nd February 2018)
  3. #152
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    What I really like about Loeb, is that he really didn't try to beat any records and as he said in multiple interviews asked about his speed "I don't know, I'm not special, maybe just couple tenths quicker"

  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    So as i said. Fastest on day 1, pushing on day 2 but still losing massive time, even to hirvonen, and fastest again on day 3 when loeb was far ahead and it was in the interest of citroen that he would catch gronholm.
    didnt tyou read the analysis stage by stage?
    how his car was slow at day 2 when at one stage he had 2 offs,in another stage he was faster from all,and in the bigger one was with same time as Loeb?
    No he hadnt a slow car.

  5. #154
    Senior Member AL14's Avatar
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    I feel you guys. It must be really difficult to find reasons to downrate Loeb dominion. But you still try your best to do that.

  6. #155
    Senior Member Watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL14 View Post
    I feel you guys. It must be really difficult to find reasons to downrate Loeb dominion. But you still try your best to do that.
    Right? It's funny how one gets called a Loeb fanboy for saying 'You know what? I reckon he was actually pretty goddamn good.'

    I'm a Ford fan and I remember him very distinctly to be way better than I liked

  7. Likes: AL14 (2nd February 2018)
  8. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watson View Post
    Right? It's funny how one gets called a Loeb fanboy for saying 'You know what?
    its not about fanboism,its about reality and facts.

  9. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    didnt tyou read the analysis stage by stage?
    how his car was slow at day 2 when at one stage he had 2 offs,in another stage he was faster from all,and in the bigger one was with same time as Loeb?
    No he hadnt a slow car.
    i don't know what you are trying to say. your stage analysis proves exactly what i'm saying.

    on day 1 he was 17 seconds faster than everyone besides loeb, on day 3 he was 37 seconds faster than everyone besides loeb.
    and on day 2? 5th fastest, losing 30 seconds to everyone besides loeb. even without his offs, he still lost 14 seconds to gronholm.

    his times on day 2 were clearly slower than those on day 1 and 3. coincidentally he was slower when he was a threat to loeb, and faster when loeb was uncatchable and he was a threat to loebs challenger gronholm.

    i could very well be coincidence, but as mintexmemory said, similar story's are being told about sordo, ogier and solberg.

  10. #158
    Senior Member Watson's Avatar
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    For everybody who says Loeb didn't have strong competition consider this: Nadal, Murray and Djokovic are all great, great Tennis players but they are unfortunate enough to be active during the same period that a certain Federer is around.

  11. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i don't know what you are trying to say. your stage analysis proves exactly what i'm saying.

    on day 1 he was 17 seconds faster than everyone besides loeb, on day 3 he was 37 seconds faster than everyone besides loeb.
    and on day 2? 5th fastest, losing 30 seconds to everyone besides loeb. even without his offs, he still lost 14 seconds to gronholm.

    his times on day 2 were clearly slower than those on day 1 and 3. coincidentally he was slower when he was a threat to loeb, and faster when loeb was uncatchable and he was a threat to loebs challenger gronholm.

    i could very well be coincidence, but as mintexmemory said, similar story's are being told about sordo, ogier and solberg.
    i am not trying to say something,i give you facts that you cant explain about the detuned engine.
    You didnt gine me any explanations about fastest times and equal times with Loeb at stages at day 2.
    no your analysis isnt right.How a slow car with detuned ecu has same stage time at 30 km stage at 2nd day?
    how a detuned car has faster stage time at 2nd day?
    plenty of drivers are slower/faster from their team mates at EVERY rally at different days,for years. It happens at EVERY rally.
    That doesnt mean that they have a detuned engine.
    Last edited by dimviii; 2nd February 2018 at 19:54.

  12. Likes: cali (2nd February 2018),focus206 (2nd February 2018)
  13. #160
    Senior Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcco View Post
    What I really like about Loeb, is that he really didn't try to beat any records and as he said in multiple interviews asked about his speed "I don't know, I'm not special, maybe just couple tenths quicker"
    He has always seemed like a genuine rally enthusiast too - I remember times when he had retired from rallies (I know not many!) and would be seen out spectating for the rest of the rally, while some other drivers would just pack up and go home.

  14. Likes: AL14 (2nd February 2018),cali (3rd February 2018),gorganl2000 (2nd February 2018),pantealex (3rd February 2018)

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