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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joestlaachmkr View Post
    Wow.. Is this thread still alive? I am not saying that Loeb is not a great driver, What i say is that he had an easy ride to his 9 titles in the WRC. And between 2008-2012 he did not have any serious competition and Citroen was far above every other manufacturer. And i am pretty certain that if Loeb had competed fulltime in the WRC between 1993-2001 instead of 2003-12 he would still be WRC champ, But definitely not a 9-time champ.
    Instead of just saying "he didn't have any serious competition", look at my post (#116) and write why you think he had no competition between 2008 and 2012. Oh and for sure in 2008, 2011 and 2012 Citroen cars were definitely not far above Fords.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mintexmemory View Post
    No made-up story. Sordo and Ogier would have won Spain on separate occasions had orders / engine management not been applied. I can't wait for Petter's biography when he can tell his own story about the Citroen mechanics 'interventions' on his hire car when ever Loeb was out of the running. I am not saying Loeb wasn't a briliant driver but he wasn't the Mr Nice Guy that his PR has led many to believe
    i remember duval saying the same thing.
    https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/de...ade?id=5601953
    "En Allemagne je suis en tête. On rentre à l'assistance, je repars et ma voiture ne va plus. Ils avaient mis volontairement ma voiture un peu malade pour que Sébastien gagne. Mais autant dire : laisse le passer, car Sébastien était devant moi au Championnat"
    hard to tell what's true and what's not, but usually if there are a few smoke plumes there's a fire somewhere.

  3. Likes: Mintexmemory (1st February 2018)
  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i remember duval saying the same thing.
    https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/de...ade?id=5601953


    hard to tell what's true and what's not, but usually if there are a few smoke plumes there's a fire somewhere.
    its not hard to tell if its true,if you examine properly every stage,and Duval vs every driver.
    time stages dont show a slow car after any service.Except that Duval was only at ss3 in front of Loeb for 3,2 sec.
    Impossible to have less power car and at second pass of stages to go faster by 10 seconds,and Gronholm to be 10 sec slower from Duval,while he was also 10 sec faster from his first pass.
    Loeb just was faster for 15 sec from first pass,while everybody was from 9-10 sec faster.
    Stage is ss3 and ss6.After ss 3 must be a service if i understand well watching the itenary.

    https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...nd-2005/?s=560

  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    its not hard to tell if its true,if you examine properly every stage,and Duval vs every driver.
    time stages dont show a slow car after any service.Except that Duval was only at ss3 in front of Loeb for 3,2 sec.
    Impossible to have less power car and at second pass of stages to go faster by 10 seconds,and Gronholm to be 10 sec slower from Duval,while he was also 10 sec faster from his first pass.
    Loeb just was faster for 15 sec from first pass,while everybody was from 9-10 sec faster.
    Stage is ss3 and ss6.After ss 3 must be a service if i understand well watching the itenary.

    https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...nd-2005/?s=560
    i kinda wonder if they got the years mixed up. what duval said seems to be more like what happened in 2007.
    fastest on day 1, losing lots of time on each stage on day 2, and then fastest on day 3 again when loeb was nearly a minute ahead.

  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i kinda wonder if they got the years mixed up. what duval said seems to be more like what happened in 2007.
    fastest on day 1, losing lots of time on each stage on day 2, and then fastest on day 3 again when loeb was nearly a minute ahead.
    no its not like this.

    at day 1 he is 1,3sec faster from Loeb
    at day 2 at ss 7 was out of road 2 times losing 16,5 sec to Loeb
    at ss 8 loosing 10,3 to stage winner Loeb at 19 km stage
    at ss 9 loosing 6,2 to Loeb at 16,51 km stage
    at ss 10 losing 10,1 sec his comment was ''it wasnt bad'' at 30,55 km stage
    at ss 11 faster from Loeb for 0,3 at 16,37 km stage
    at ss 12 losing 2,7 to Loeb at 19km stage
    at ss 13 loosing 5,9 to Loeb at 16,5 km stage
    at ss 14 losing 0,3 to Loeb ay 30 km stage

    at last stage his comments were "I've been pushing a lot tonight, I'm happy, it's amazing after 8 months."

    i dont see any lost of power at his car.
    at long 30km stage he was equal
    at one stage was faster
    at all the rest he was loosing from less than 0,1 sec per km and at some stages he was loosing more like 0,55 sec /km
    he was loosing more at first pass of stages.He was loosing a lot less time at second pass.
    he wasnt constant,that was his problem,except the 2 offs at one stage where he lost 16 sec.

  7. #146
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    i think the fact that people who do not credit Loeb for his achievements resort to conspiracy theories and bullshit talk about internal sabotage instead of facts shows how great Loeb was...

    the fact that a has been brings so much pain and agony to little pig kids shows his greatness... nobody bothers with the titles of the others because compared to Loeb they are garbage dogs.
    The North Will Rise Again

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  9. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    no its not like this.

    at day 1 he is 1,3sec faster from Loeb
    at day 2 at ss 7 was out of road 2 times losing 16,5 sec to Loeb
    at ss 8 loosing 10,3 to stage winner Loeb at 19 km stage
    at ss 9 loosing 6,2 to Loeb at 16,51 km stage
    at ss 10 losing 10,1 sec his comment was ''it wasnt bad'' at 30,55 km stage
    at ss 11 faster from Loeb for 0,3 at 16,37 km stage
    at ss 12 losing 2,7 to Loeb at 19km stage
    at ss 13 loosing 5,9 to Loeb at 16,5 km stage
    at ss 14 losing 0,3 to Loeb ay 30 km stage

    at last stage his comments were "I've been pushing a lot tonight, I'm happy, it's amazing after 8 months."

    i dont see any lost of power at his car.
    at long 30km stage he was equal
    at one stage was faster
    at all the rest he was loosing from less than 0,1 sec per km and at some stages he was loosing more like 0,55 sec /km
    he was loosing more at first pass of stages.He was loosing a lot less time at second pass.
    he wasnt constant,that was his problem,except the 2 offs at one stage where he lost 16 sec.
    So as i said. Fastest on day 1, pushing on day 2 but still losing massive time, even to hirvonen, and fastest again on day 3 when loeb was far ahead and it was in the interest of citroen that he would catch gronholm.

  10. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    So as i said. Fastest on day 1, pushing on day 2 but still losing massive time, even to hirvonen, and fastest again on day 3 when loeb was far ahead and it was in the interest of citroen that he would catch gronholm.
    Or maybe the wine-country specials that were contested on day 1 and 3 were better suited to the smaller and nimbler Xsara, while the bulky C4 was better suited to the panzerplatte stages on day 2.

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  12. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lousada View Post
    Or maybe the wine-country specials that were contested on day 1 and 3 were better suited to the smaller and nimbler Xsara, while the bulky C4 was better suited to the panzerplatte stages on day 2.
    The thing is that on day 2, he not only lost time to loeb in the c4, but also to gronholm and hirvonen in the ford, and to atkinson in the subaru.

  13. Likes: Mintexmemory (2nd February 2018)
  14. #150
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    My short answer to the original question "How good was Sebastien Loeb?" would be "very" (and I would also correct the original question by saying that he still is good rather than was good!).

    I personally think that direct comparisons are very difficult, if not impossible. Drivers who were very successful in one era would not have fared as well in others as the design of the cars - and the optimum driving style for getting the best out of them - evolved: you don't have to look too hard to find plenty of examples of drivers that fall into that category.

    I do think that Loeb would be held in higher esteem if there had been more competition (i.e. more manufacturers) in his prime seasons, but for me he was an incredible driver, in the right team in the perfect era for his driving style. Of course a change in team would have allowed him to demonstrate versatility (which I think is the mark of a true great), but the options weren't really there at the time. I also agree with previous comments that it's a real shame we never got see a full season of Loeb/Citroen versus Ogier/VW.

    Perhaps slightly off topic, but I feel that the achievements of Ogier with VW are viewed in a similar fashion to Loeb as he (Ogier) looked to be in a different league at times. Not to undermine his previous results, but I think Ogier taking the Championship last year was his finest career moment to date: proof that he could take a Championship when he wasn't in a car that was clearly better!
    "If in doubt... flat out!"

  15. Likes: GravelBen (2nd February 2018),Mintexmemory (2nd February 2018),RAS007 (2nd February 2018),steve.mandzij (2nd February 2018)

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