Page 10 of 26 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 260
  1. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    25,087
    Like
    9,903
    Liked 16,087 Times in 6,980 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    My personal favourites: calling Kankkunen "crap", and stating that to compare Loeb with Makinen or Kankkunen is "laughable". These are patently ridiculous statements..
    the only ridiculous statement is that a driver that cant win at asphalt is a better driver than Loeb.
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    was probably one of the worst eras in the WRC, with very little competition or manufacturer participation and a declining visibility for the sport. Thankfully, those days seem to be long gone.
    2017 championship team, was the same rival team for years as the ''worst era with Loeb dominating''

    reality check done.

  2. Likes: AL14 (30th January 2018),cali (30th January 2018)
  3. #92
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Like
    511
    Liked 832 Times in 380 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    I think that part of the reason Loeb evokes such extreme reactions in people is that the Loeb era, or at least the second half of it, was probably one of the worst eras in the WRC, with very little competition or manufacturer participation and a declining visibility for the sport. Thankfully, those days seem to be long gone.
    Not true. I'd take a look at the 2011 season. By comparison, Ogier's championships with VW had much less competition, but that doesn't really take that much away from Ogier because he destroyed everyone anyway.
    It's true that in some years there were very little manufacturer participation, but it's not like there were very fast drivers sitting at home because of lack of manufacturer seats...

  4. Likes: cali (30th January 2018)
  5. #93
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    2,556
    Like
    10,730
    Liked 1,544 Times in 663 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    There has been some fairly amusing hyperventilating on this thread over the last few days. My personal favourites: calling Kankkunen "crap", and stating that to compare Loeb with Makinen or Kankkunen is "laughable". These are patently ridiculous statements. There are more than a few Loeb lovers on these boards, of which I am not one, but lets try and keep the discussion within the bounds of reality. Loeb is certainly one of the greatest rally drivers who ever lived. For me, he's not the best ever, but thats a matter of personal opinion. I think that part of the reason Loeb evokes such extreme reactions in people is that the Loeb era, or at least the second half of it, was probably one of the worst eras in the WRC, with very little competition or manufacturer participation and a declining visibility for the sport. Thankfully, those days seem to be long gone.
    Here we go again selective reading skills at it's finest. Crap in asphalt, didn't call him overall like that. Mentioned he's a great driver but lacking asphalt skills. Really hard to understand? A complete driver has to master all the surfaces and KKK was nowhere near the best pace in asphalt. Thus should not be mentioned in a discussion best ever.

    It's quite weird that you lower your standards so low as comparing a driver with almost a 4 times less rally wins, below average in tarmac to the only guy who has 46% win ratio, 12% retirement ratio, a guy who beat his closest rival by not participating in a 4 last decisive rallyes and still clinching a title. The list goes on...

    And I'm the least Loeb fan here, I found his dominance quite irritating at the time. But you can't take away his achievements, this guy has done something that noone did before and probably noone will do it after. Putting some random guys in the mix whit no proof, no facts and lowering standards for some of them and to raise the standards for the guy do not like....

    This is what I find amusing

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

  6. #94
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    2,556
    Like
    10,730
    Liked 1,544 Times in 663 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by focus206 View Post
    Not true. I'd take a look at the 2011 season. By comparison, Ogier's championships with VW had much less competition, but that doesn't really take that much away from Ogier because he destroyed everyone anyway.
    It's true that in some years there were very little manufacturer participation, but it's not like there were very fast drivers sitting at home because of lack of manufacturer seats...
    There has always been only around 3 manus in the chamionship and some odd team trying to cone into play. 80's Audi, Pug and Lancia. 90's Ford, Toyota and Lancia. Mid 90's Subaru, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Ford and so on. Overall the quantity of the competition has stayed roughly the same throughout the years.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

  7. #95
    Senior Member RAS007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    619
    Like
    198
    Liked 227 Times in 119 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cali View Post
    There has always been only around 3 manus in the chamionship and some odd team trying to cone into play. 80's Audi, Pug and Lancia. 90's Ford, Toyota and Lancia. Mid 90's Subaru, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Ford and so on. Overall the quantity of the competition has stayed roughly the same throughout the years.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    In 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 there were only two manufacturer teams: Citroen and Ford, unless you are counting the stillborn Mini project.

  8. Likes: cali (30th January 2018)
  9. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    25,087
    Like
    9,903
    Liked 16,087 Times in 6,980 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    In 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 there were only two manufacturer teams: Citroen and Ford, unless you are counting the stillborn Mini project.
    whats the problem with 2 manufacturers? At the era you mentioned at previous posts ,they were skoda with octavia and hyundai with accent.Did they offer proper competition?
    competition doesnt come always with quantity.

    reality check Lancia 037 vs audi quattro ,2 players plenty of competition.
    Ogier era with vw against citroen/ford/hyundai no competition.
    with your theory lancia vs audi was no competition,but there was at polo/Ogier years.
    No it was the opposite.

  10. Likes: cali (30th January 2018),pantealex (31st January 2018),TWRC (30th January 2018)
  11. #97
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sleezattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,342
    Like
    737
    Liked 558 Times in 295 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    If we rely on statistics, loeb has crushed everyone.

    Oh, and remember that time loeb crashed in monte, got a 5 minutes penalty and still finished only a minute behind gronholm? That is crushing, even without statistics.
    Ok sure. On that event on that day he "crushed" Grönholm..
    But when Grönholm beat him then he must have "crushed" Loeb...That day..At that event..
    I'm just saying the the words used are silly.
    It's like when F1 fan-bois pee their pants on those rare occasions that one guy actually passes another they try to find superlatives to "BRILLIANT!!!!" yeah, right every pass is brilliant so the latest pass is what "Hyper-brilliant"?
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  12. #98
    Senior Member RAS007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    619
    Like
    198
    Liked 227 Times in 119 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    whats the problem with 2 manufacturers? At the era you mentioned at previous posts ,they were skoda with octavia and hyundai with accent.Did they offer proper competition?
    competition doesnt come always with quantity.

    reality check Lancia 037 vs audi quattro ,2 players plenty of competition.
    Ogier era with vw against citroen/ford/hyundai no competition.
    with your theory lancia vs audi was no competition,but there was at polo/Ogier years.
    No it was the opposite.
    The problem with 2 manufacturers is that, in general, it means less competition. You cannot seriously claim that from 2009-2012, with only Citroen and Ford, there was the same level of competition as say 2000-2004, when there were at least 4 manufacturers, all fielding ex-world champion drivers. That's just not rational.

    If I agree with your assertion that in the "Ogier era with VW against Citroen/Ford/Hyundai no competition", then you'd surely have to admit that there was no competition from 2009-2012 either.

  13. #99
    친애하는 지도자
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    20,522
    Like
    439
    Liked 2,720 Times in 1,256 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    The problem with 2 manufacturers is that, in general, it means less competition. You cannot seriously claim that from 2009-2012, with only Citroen and Ford, there was the same level of competition as say 2000-2004, when there were at least 4 manufacturers, all fielding ex-world champion drivers. That's just not rational.

    If I agree with your assertion that in the "Ogier era with VW against Citroen/Ford/Hyundai no competition", then you'd surely have to admit that there was no competition from 2009-2012 either.

  14. Likes: AL14 (30th January 2018),cali (31st January 2018)
  15. #100
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    25,087
    Like
    9,903
    Liked 16,087 Times in 6,980 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RAS007 View Post
    The problem with 2 manufacturers is that, in general, it means less competition. You cannot seriously claim that from 2009-2012, with only Citroen and Ford, there was the same level of competition as say 2000-2004, when there were at least 4 manufacturers, all fielding ex-world champion drivers. That's just not rational.

    If I agree with your assertion that in the "Ogier era with VW against Citroen/Ford/Hyundai no competition", then you'd surely have to admit that there was no competition from 2009-2012 either.
    2009 Loeb won with 1 point from Hirvonen.No competition?
    2010 Loeb won with big margin against Hirvonen,Latvala,Solberg,Ogier,Sordo. No competition?
    2011 Loeb won 222 points against 218 for Hirvonen and 196 for Ogier and 172for Latvala.No competition?

    to admit that there is ''no competition'' you have to examinate properly each year.
    If a driver wins some championships in a row that doesnt mean that ''there is no competition'' but that he was better from his rivals.
    boring that wins the same person? Maybe,but NOT that there is no competition
    Last edited by dimviii; 30th January 2018 at 21:34.

  16. Likes: cali (31st January 2018),focus206 (30th January 2018),janvanvurpa (31st January 2018),pantealex (31st January 2018),steve.mandzij (31st January 2018)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •