Page 84 of 90 FirstFirst ... 34748283848586 ... LastLast
Results 831 to 840 of 900
  1. #831
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,836
    Like
    474
    Liked 1,472 Times in 572 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    those italians are going to erase their country's debt at such pace....
    You mean those real Italian stewards, like Waltraud Wünsch and Kai Tarkiainen?

  2. Likes: janvanvurpa (10th June 2018),Mirek (10th June 2018),pantealex (11th June 2018),Rallyper (11th June 2018),tommeke_B (10th June 2018)
  3. #832
    Senior Member Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    539
    Like
    0
    Liked 377 Times in 187 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    those italians are going to erase their country's debt at such pace....
    Says the Greek guy. What was the proverb with the stones and the glass houses again?

  4. Likes: skarderud (11th June 2018),sonnybobiche (15th February 2019),TypeR (10th June 2018)
  5. #833
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    249
    Like
    1,426
    Liked 290 Times in 113 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by m-ast View Post
    There is reference of that, just article 13.3.2, characteristics of the power stage: "Be preceded by Media Zone and a regroup of at least 30 minutes. Arts. 42.5.2 and 48.2.2 do not apply for this Media Zone and this regroup."
    Thanks for the reference. It indeed says that 42.2.2 does not apply for the media zone and regroup prior to a power stage. However, that only confuses matters more. Since 48.2.2 is an article that sets out constraints on when and by whom food, drink, clothing, and information can be passed to and from the crew, a strict reading of 13.3.2 would mean that 42.2.2 does not apply at this time and that there are no constraints on passing food drink clothing and information to or from the crew during this regroup. It is unclear what the intent of 13.3.2 actually is, but ambiguous wording can only be the fault of the FIA.

    Moreover, it seems to me the stop control made a mistake handing the time card to Tanak, since Ogier could have realized his mistake or been informed by the team (who saw it on live TV) and turned around to go get it. Once it was given to another competitor, that was out of Ogier's control.

  6. #834
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    6,378
    Like
    2,005
    Liked 1,367 Times in 710 Posts
    At stagend where Ogier just drove off, he must have been given a message over the team comm system. He suddenly blew off the interviewer and just drove off.
    Maybe something to do with tyrechange or something else that had to be checked before the next stage.

    Have the team explained something on why he just had to go asap?

  7. #835

  8. #836
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    97
    Like
    10
    Liked 76 Times in 23 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    The stewards decision, under the section "Reason", reads as follows:

    "WRC Art. 2.13 clearly states that the "... receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid..." is not allowed."

    Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.


    The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

    So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
    -in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
    -in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

    However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.

    Once again, I can see absolutely zero justification for Ogier/Ingrassia being handed ANY penalty whatsoever, suspended or otherwise. I hope they will appeal and I hope that the FIA will clean up this legal mess that they created through their complete incompetence. But since the FIA are clearly borderline retarded, I don't hold out much hope.
    The rule itself states:

    "The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
    organisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
    team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2."

    What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.

    In other words: The rule has nothing to do with the fact that the time cards are issued by the organisers, but the fact of the matter is whether the time card in question is supplied (i.e. given) to a competitor by anyone who isn't an organiser.

    Theoretically, if the time card had been given to Ingrassia by a steward (who went to the next time control by foot or bike), the acceptance of the time card would have been legal as per Art. 2.13. Since it was given ("supplied", cf. the rules) by Tänak, the reception constituted a breach of the rules.

    Therefore, the decision of the stewards is completely in accordance with Art. 2.13 of the rule book.

  9. Likes: dupanton (11th June 2018),KKS (10th June 2018),Rally Hokkaido (11th June 2018)
  10. #837
    Objective observer stefanvv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wonderlamd
    Posts
    6,715
    Like
    1,558
    Liked 1,170 Times in 791 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rallyace View Post
    What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.
    That's completely wrong interpretation. "Supplied" != "Handed" (received by hand). The rule is unclear in the second case, so it can be interpreted according to someone's desire.
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

  11. Likes: dupanton (11th June 2018),sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)
  12. #838
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,762
    Like
    511
    Liked 833 Times in 381 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Moreover, it seems to me the stop control made a mistake handing the time card to Tanak, since Ogier could have realized his mistake or been informed by the team (who saw it on live TV) and turned around to go get it. Once it was given to another competitor, that was out of Ogier's control.
    It has been stated earlier in this thread that it's not allowed to drive back into TC. Probably they decided to give the time card to Tanak as a mean to let Ogier continue the rally, without prematurely ending the fight, since Ogier would have been excluded without time card. I think if it was a random WRC2 driver to have forgotten the time card, nothing like this would have happened.

  13. Likes: pantealex (11th June 2018)
  14. #839
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Timaru NZ
    Posts
    443
    Like
    107
    Liked 306 Times in 158 Posts
    The International Sporting Code carries this item in the Penalties section

    12.1.1.i Failure to follow the instructions of the relevant officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.

    It could be argued that Tanak was following following instructions in taking the card and giving it to Ogier.In other words both parties were doing as they were told and had they not done so then they would have both been penalised
    Things happen for reasons, not excuses.

  15. Likes: sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)
  16. #840
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kyiv
    Posts
    5,711
    Like
    2,825
    Liked 1,504 Times in 893 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    I am not sure "it is not allowed to give any assistance". Check the regulations and tell me which article exactly was broken. He was penalised for breaking article 2.13, but I think nothing happened wrong according to this article.
    Article that mentioned in decision - Art 2.13
    2.13 PROHIBITED SERVICEThe use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by theorganisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence ofteam personnel as defined in Art. 48.2.
    If that time card was brought back by a marshal or any other "organiser" people - no problem. But it was returned by Ott Tanak, who not an organiser. So Ogier receipt a manufactured solid material. And it was prohibited.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •