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  1. #821
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    I doubt these fines are paid by the drivers...

    Again it should have been an exclusion...

    just put italians on my "nations and people i really really really dislike" list...
    For sure not. There is for sure no reason for exclusion.

  2. Likes: sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)
  3. #822
    Senior Member itix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLuto View Post
    Yes, time card is very important document. Also in this digital era.
    So what is it actually used for then? At least at world rally level?
    I get that it has meaning in some local rally without fancy equipment etc...

  4. #823
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itix View Post
    So what is it actually used for then? At least at world rally level?
    I get that it has meaning in some local rally without fancy equipment etc...
    Have you ever done any rally? Time card is basic focument on every rally, it works everywhere in same way. In some local rally and same also in WRC.

  5. Likes: dupanton (10th June 2018),Gregor-y (11th June 2018),pantealex (11th June 2018)
  6. #824
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    What is the PRECISE regulation regarding the handling of the time cards?

    From the two rules that Julian Porter read word-for-word on All Live, there is absolutely no penalty that can be legally justified. The time card was handed to the start control on time, and no external object, solid or liquid, that was not manufactured by the organizers was given to the crew.

    I know that stewards and drivers are maybe not the sharpest legal minds, but this 10,000 euro fine strikes me as arbitrary, capricious, unjustified, and unacceptable given the letter of the rules.

    Anyone have a link to the stewards decision? I'd like to go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

    Ed: found it. This is completely absurd. Not only should there be no penalty, but the three stewards should never be allowed to steward again, because they appear to have no concept of legal reasoning.
    Last edited by sonnybobiche; 10th June 2018 at 20:08.

  7. #825
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  8. Likes: danon (10th June 2018),KKS (10th June 2018),N.O.T (10th June 2018),Rallyper (11th June 2018)
  9. #826
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    The stewards decision, under the section "Reason", reads as follows:

    "WRC Art. 2.13 clearly states that the "... receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid..." is not allowed."

    Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.


    The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

    So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
    -in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
    -in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

    However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.

    Once again, I can see absolutely zero justification for Ogier/Ingrassia being handed ANY penalty whatsoever, suspended or otherwise. I hope they will appeal and I hope that the FIA will clean up this legal mess that they created through their complete incompetence. But since the FIA are clearly borderline retarded, I don't hold out much hope.
    Last edited by sonnybobiche; 10th June 2018 at 20:28.

  10. Likes: dnb (14th June 2018),itix (20th June 2018),raybak (11th June 2018),Zeakiwi (10th June 2018)
  11. #827
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  12. Likes: N.O.T (10th June 2018),the sniper (11th June 2018)
  13. #828
    Junior Member m-ast's Avatar
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    there is more going on, 10000 fine to Hyundai for a wrong photo in the homologation form of the R5: rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=1767

  14. Likes: dimviii (10th June 2018),Mirek (10th June 2018),pantealex (11th June 2018),sonnybobiche (10th June 2018),the sniper (11th June 2018)
  15. #829
    친애하는 지도자 N.O.T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m-ast View Post
    there is more going on, 10000€ fine to Hyundai for a wrong photo in the homologation form of the R5: rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=1767
    those italians are going to erase their country's debt at such pace....
    The North Will Rise Again
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/158173595@N03/albums

  16. Likes: EightGear (10th June 2018),mousti (10th June 2018),the sniper (11th June 2018)
  17. #830
    Junior Member m-ast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

    So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
    -in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
    -in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

    However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.
    There is reference of that, just article 13.3.2, characteristics of the power stage: "Be preceded by Media Zone and a regroup of at least 30 minutes. Arts. 42.5.2 and 48.2.2 do not apply for this Media Zone and this regroup."

  18. Likes: sonnybobiche (10th June 2018)

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