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  1. #1421
    친애하는 지도자 N.O.T's Avatar
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    mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

    whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

    and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.
    Last edited by N.O.T; 12th March 2018 at 14:01.
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  3. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by mknight View Post
    For once I can't agree with you on multiple points.

    Loeb was surprising yes and hats off to him, but I won't say he had rally winning performance. Saturday morning he was clearly slower than Ogier and about same speed as Meeke. And it was at this point under pressure that he got puncture. Friday he was behind Sordo with same starting position.

    This was first time since Portugal last year that Ogier actually had dominating rally winning performance on gravel. (and in Portugal Tanak seemed as fast or faster).
    Meeke imo showed again what he lacks for WDC, consistency under pressure. 3 or 4? spins, at least 3 times very wide (2 times on the Saturday SS with his carpark) and completely unnecessary off on sunday causing him to also loose PS chances.

    Sordo typical good rally for him, fast and all but not enough to charge for win.

    Evans actually had quite good performance over the few stages he ran. Way too few for any judgment though.

    Sunninen and Lappi were pretty much invisible whole rally yes. Mikkelsen was very disappointing, only performance on "expected" level was Friday afternoon. Don't agree on the severity of the off though, it was one wide corner with some small panel dmg. Discounting Meeke both Neuville and Ogier had at least 2 such moments.

    Hard to judge Toyota's much with the issues, but would say Latvala was again consistently behind Tanak in speed.
    agree with all you wrote,except Loeb not winning pace.You cant max the output of these cars at your first rally at just first 6-7 stageswhile you have to drive at gravel 5 years.
    Except that we saw how he upped his pace from shakedown to the first stages.
    Also his puncture was with a stone at racing line,as he said(same as Sordo)
    Last edited by dimviii; 12th March 2018 at 14:09.

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  5. #1423
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL14 View Post
    While I agree with Ogier that 10 seconds is too much since we can't know that he did it on purpose and of course he didn't gain 10 seconds cutting the chicane, I think it's fair that a penalty is applied considering that there are bonus points in the power stage that can be valuable for the championship.
    Penalty's are not supposed to correlate with time gained. They are intended to punish for wrongdoing. A 0,5 seconds false start gives you also 10 seconds penalty.

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  7. #1424
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

    whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

    and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.
    while i agree with the penalty,i have a feeling that this penalty had to do with more than this case on moving the obstacles..
    also the organisers while they have inform after 1st pass all drivers,they still have at 2nd pass empty without water.

  8. #1425
    Senior Member AL14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    Penalty's are not supposed to correlate with time gained. They are intended to punish for wrongdoing. A 0,5 seconds false start gives you also 10 seconds penalty.
    Fair enough. Your reasoning is actually right. I was thinking that cutting for mistake and on purpose could have a different treatment but that would imply a total mess whenever someone do something wrong.

  9. #1426
    Senior Member AL14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

    whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

    and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.
    I'm curious: is there a nationality in the world that is not filled of idiots and/or retarded and/or autistic people in your view?

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  11. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL14 View Post
    I'm curious: is there a nationality in the world that is not filled of idiots and/or retarded and/or autistic people in your view?
    The Republic of N.O.T, population: 1?
    Never stop dreaming because one day it might happen.

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  13. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
    mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

    whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

    and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.
    Like I said earlier; if the chicanes had had sand or water or something in them to make them sturdy but not dangerous this wouldn't have been so big of an issue. Maybe even concrete blocks or tyre walls could have been better.

  14. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve.mandzij View Post
    Like I said earlier; if the chicanes had had sand or water or something in them to make them sturdy but not dangerous this wouldn't have been so big of an issue. Maybe even concrete blocks or tyre walls could have been better.
    Chicanes are always a tricky thing to manage. If you fill them with sand or water in order to try and keep them in place, and then a competitor hits them knocking them out of place, it is impossible to quickly get them back in place. Normally there should be clear penalties listed for hitting chicane elements. Finland did this last year and all of the competitors knew what the penalty was for ignoring an element of the chicane. Ogier asked before stage start what the penalty was for hitting it and it is normal for a driver/team to try and find every advantage and then take it if they think the reward is greater than the penalty. It's also why stewards are present on every event. It's impossible to write a set of rules that covers every possible scenario so when things happen that fall outside a defined area in the rules, then a person must step in and make a ruling on the legality and or punishment for the incident. Every single infraction is different with different outcomes, context, etc. and it requires experienced, knowledgeable people to interpret the situation and make a ruling. Sometimes they get it wrong and there is an appeals process. This is how it should be IMO. I think the organizers could have potentially avoided this situation if they made it more clear by listing penalties for displacing a chicane element but that is water under the bridge now and hindsight is always 20/20.
    Last edited by OHL; 12th March 2018 at 16:17.

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  16. #1430
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Asked to describe his rally, Meeke told Autosport: "It's been shite. S.H.I.T.E. Too many errors from me this weekend.

    "I had the car, I had the road position and the pace to win and I wasn't able to convert it.

    "I'm frustrated as hell, but if I'm frustrated as hell with third place that's not a bad sign. I've got no excuses here."

    Loeb; Assessing his performance, Loeb said his frontrunning pace had been a "nice surprise".

    "I obviously had no certainty about my level, bearing in mind that everyone is fighting over tenths of a second, and that it doesn't take much to find yourself left behind a little bit," said Loeb, who will also contest next month's Tour of Corsica for Citroen.

    "So it was a nice surprise to be on the pace! I'm just a bit frustrated that I wasn't able to test myself properly against the others right to the end because of the puncture.

    "In any case, it was a very good weekend and that was the initial aim of this comeback.

    "I hope I can now go on to get a good result in Corsica, even though I'll still have quite a few things to refamiliarise myself with."



    https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...co-performance

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