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  1. #51
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    Ferrari are apparently re-using the same gearbox at Suzuka, having sent it back to Maranello for a detailed inspection, so at least they haven't been given a pass on a new gearbox.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    for those (like me) outside the UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWMzEFksYs

    Clearly Seb's fault and like you said how convenient the footage wasn't available at the time.
    I'm pretty sure it was but they just didn't want to see it simply to give Ferrari and Vettel yet another pass.
    And once again Seb takes no responsibility and absurdly rants about Stroll when he was driving way too fast in the bloody cooldown lap and rams into the Williams.
    Even if this footage was available at the time, i have zero confidence the Stewards would have done anything anyway
    "vettel promised not do do it again" would have been their reasoning for no penalty.
    Actually, I think there is more to this than we have realised. I think Seb caused this intentionally because he was marginal on fuel. By smashing into Stroll and destroying his car, he avoided having to provide a fuel sample at the end of the race. Now the incident itself you could overlook but credence is added when you take into account that he took the steering wheel with him, which I'd imagine is because he didn't want any official to see he was that low on fuel in the dashboard readouts. It's
    the only other way he could have been caught.

    So there are few things here which, once again, clearly show Stewards bias favouring Ferrari:

    A) Vettel should have been punished and received a penalty in Japan for removing the steering wheel - a glaringly obvious action that was conveniently overlooked by the Stewards.
    B) He got away without having his fuel sample tested which would probably have resulted in race disqualification.
    C) Footage which shows he was clearly to blame was conveniently unavailable to the Stewards at the time of inquiry.

    One of these by itself isn't enough to raise an eyebrow- all of them together and it once again shows Ferrari being favoured by the Stewards.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 6th October 2017 at 12:03.

  3. Likes: truefan72 (7th October 2017)
  4. #53
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    The onboard from Strolls car certainly brings a new interpritation, I had originally thought Stroll was to blame, but that certainly looked like Vettel drove into him. Regardless it was a really odd incident.
    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - "Ping Pong is coming home"

  5. Likes: truefan72 (7th October 2017)
  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Actually, I think there is more to this than we have realised. I think Seb caused this intentionally because he was marginal on fuel. By smashing into Stroll and destroying his car, he avoided having to provide a fuel sample at the end of the race. Now the incident itself you could overlook but credence is added when you take into account that he took the steering wheel with him, which I'd imagine is because he didn't want any official to see he was that low on fuel in the dashboard readouts. It's
    the only other way he could have been caught.

    So there are few things here which, once again, clearly show Stewards bias favouring Ferrari:

    A) Vettel should have been punished and received a penalty in Japan for removing the steering wheel - a glaringly obvious action that was conveniently overlooked by the Stewards.
    B) He got away without having his fuel sample tested which would probably have resulted in race disqualification.
    C) Footage which shows he was clearly to blame was conveniently unavailable to the Stewards at the time of inquiry.

    One of these by itself isn't enough to raise an eyebrow- all of them together and it once again shows Ferrari being favoured by the Stewards.
    A) Of course the regulations say that the steering wheel must remain in place, but it could not be refitted and was of no use to the stewards anyways.
    Also, after an accident, presumably, all the power gets turned off in the car to prevent anyone getting electrocuted or short circuits starting a fire so the display on the steering wheel would be turned off.
    B) Do you have any source at all that they didn't take a fuel sample from the Ferrari?
    Last edited by onemanband; 6th October 2017 at 18:08.

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    for those (like me) outside the UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWMzEFksYs

    Clearly Seb's fault and like you said how convenient the footage wasn't available at the time.
    I'm pretty sure it was but they just didn't want to see it simply to give Ferrari and Vettel yet another pass.
    And once again Seb takes no responsibility and absurdly rants about Stroll when he was driving way too fast in the bloody cooldown lap and rams into the Williams.
    Even if this footage was available at the time, i have zero confidence the Stewards would have done anything anyway
    "vettel promised not do do it again" would have been their reasoning for no penalty.
    I kind of agree that Seb was at fault himself for going too close to Stroll but i can somewhat understand that.
    First, Seb was not going that fast at all, they were moving in a 3 car group, all with similar speed (Grosjean, Stroll and Seb) until Stroll lifts off before the corner and downshifts.
    Second, in the extended footage of the Skypad analysis, you could see that they also showed Ocon's actions at the same corner - Ocon stayed out of the racing line pretty much at all times and there was no doubt he would be collecting marbles. Meanwhile Stroll went somewhat on the racing line until the corner entry, then slowed down considerably and didn't follow the radius of the corner when turning in to go to collect rubber on the outside. If you try to put yourself in Seb's head I think it was very easy for him to think that Stroll was going to keep on the racing line.
    My verdict would be that Stroll's actions were confusing but still, as it was a cooldown lap, something like that could be expected and Seb didn't need to leave so little space.

    EDIT: Link for the extended footage https://streamable.com/zmuj2
    Last edited by onemanband; 6th October 2017 at 18:04.

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Actually, I think there is more to this than we have realised. I think Seb caused this intentionally because he was marginal on fuel. By smashing into Stroll and destroying his car, he avoided having to provide a fuel sample at the end of the race. Now the incident itself you could overlook but credence is added when you take into account that he took the steering wheel with him, which I'd imagine is because he didn't want any official to see he was that low on fuel in the dashboard readouts. It's
    the only other way he could have been caught.

    So there are few things here which, once again, clearly show Stewards bias favouring Ferrari:

    A) Vettel should have been punished and received a penalty in Japan for removing the steering wheel - a glaringly obvious action that was conveniently overlooked by the Stewards.
    B) He got away without having his fuel sample tested which would probably have resulted in race disqualification.
    C) Footage which shows he was clearly to blame was conveniently unavailable to the Stewards at the time of inquiry.

    One of these by itself isn't enough to raise an eyebrow- all of them together and it once again shows Ferrari being favoured by the Stewards.
    That's the other conspiracy theory I've read about .
    The first was the gearbox , but the steering wheel fits with the fuel gauge aspect added in .

    All in all , a pretty clever gambit , if that's what it was .
    I'm not sure how they managed to keep the footage from Stroll's car away from them at the time , but I did read they weren't able to access the data until they had his actual car back in the garage .
    Whether this was because of the incident or just a glitch in the system , I don't know , but it was given as a possible reason it wasn't available for the stewards .

    I think it more likely they didn't see it , and thus , made the call that they couldn't believe it would have been intentional from either driver .
    I don't see Ferrari being favoured by the FIA here . I don't think the bad smell is coming from them , although the idea of a close championship must be somewhere in the mix .

    The idea of tagging a rookie to keep your car out of parc ferme is a pretty "Flavio" thing to do .
    Are Seb and his team really guilty of that ?

  9. #57
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    That's the other conspiracy theory I've read about .
    The first was the gearbox , but the steering wheel fits with the fuel gauge aspect added in .

    All in all , a pretty clever gambit , if that's what it was .
    I'm not sure how they managed to keep the footage from Stroll's car away from them at the time , but I did read they weren't able to access the data until they had his actual car back in the garage .
    Whether this was because of the incident or just a glitch in the system , I don't know , but it was given as a possible reason it wasn't available for the stewards .

    I think it more likely they didn't see it , and thus , made the call that they couldn't believe it would have been intentional from either driver .
    I don't see Ferrari being favoured by the FIA here . I don't think the bad smell is coming from them , although the idea of a close championship must be somewhere in the mix .

    The idea of tagging a rookie to keep your car out of parc ferme is a pretty "Flavio" thing to do .
    Are Seb and his team really guilty of that ?
    I'm not sure it goes as deep as Black Knight's Theory
    But something is fishy for sure. Out of all the issues brought up, the one about the steering wheel beckons for more questions.
    Whatever the case, to me this is the 3rd time this year alone that Vettel has got away scott free with dubious to malicious incidents that most other drivers would have been penalized.
    And yes, i do think the idea of a close championship ( or at the very worst, stewards reluctant to interfere with the championship) is clouding the judgement of official from race stewards to the fIA themselves. The special relationship the Ferrari has with the FIA is also a huge factor that cannot be overlooked.
    I just hope that F1's new owners can finally usher in a new profit sharing scheme (along with hopefully the addition of 2 new teams) and finally put an end to this lopsided relationship. If Ferrari don't like the fact that almost 30 years of an unfair and biased payment arrangement in their favor is coming to an end then by all means leave.
    you can't argue with results

  10. #58
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Quali dawgz. It should be an interesting session, Kimi with a gearbox change and resultant penalty!
    Fred has a 35 grid place penalty for new power unit!
    I have great faith in fools -- Self confidence my friends will call it.


  11. #59
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    Rogro plants it in the wall!!
    I have great faith in fools -- Self confidence my friends will call it.


  12. #60
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    Ba ba ba ba ba Boss 127.8!
    I have great faith in fools -- Self confidence my friends will call it.


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