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Thread: Singapore '17

  1. #101
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    The video is very clear. Kimi was in no way at fault. Max bears at least 40% of the fault because Kimi was clearly ahead of him when contact occurred. Seb gets the remaining 60% because of his over aggressive and needless move that far to his left. I wonder if Ferrari are having a private word or two with him.
    yup, upon further review i'd apportion blame as such
    Kimi - none
    Max - 28%
    Vettel 72%
    you can't argue with results

  2. #102
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EightGear View Post
    No, Max was trying to avoid Vettel coming to the left like a torpedo.

    You are correct. I looked at it again and the Ferrari's squeezed him.
    " Lady - I'm in an awful dilemma.
    Moe - Yeah, I never cared much for these foreign cars either."

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    yup, upon further review i'd apportion blame as such
    Kimi - none
    Max - 28%
    Vettel 72%
    I was convinced Kimi was to blame until seeing the overhead view, now I'm sharing it between Max and Seb.
    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - "Ping Pong is coming home"

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  6. #104
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    On the overall I think most people agree that Vettel was mainly at fault. Hamilton's come out and said he thought Vettel was unsighted in the crash and that is probably what caused the crash. I'd probably agree with that and, as I said, I don't believe there was any ill intent on his part on this occasion,even if swerving across the track like that in those conditions is just a recipe for a big bang.

    The point is that it was a racing incident regardless of where you apportion blame. A racing incident doesn't have to be 50/50 or 33/33/33 as in this case. It's one of those things that happen given the day and conditions. The stewards got it right in not dispensing further punishment.

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  8. #105
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    Pole sitters who get bad starts always move across. I am fascinated and enjoy the differences in everyone's opinion of this incident. I agree with the stewards decision a racing incident. I apportion a greater percentage of blame onto Max. Kimi held his line. Max initiated all of the contact when he turned into Kimi. As I see it, he had an opportunity to back out of it and chose not to, or, his situational awareness was poor because he failed to look in his mirrors. Once again, Max was in a position where contact was made with other drivers. It keeps happening, it seems only a few of us tend to notice.
    Last edited by Warriwa; 18th September 2017 at 23:19. Reason: Grrammu

  9. #106
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    In my view , the stewards were correct in their assessment , that nobody was solely to blame .

    However , that's only the dry facts taken into consideration .
    It doesn't consider the choices they made , relative to the situations each driver faced .
    Obviously , they all went out , but who made logical choices ?

    Max knew Vettel had his main title rival in 5th place , with his team-mate just ahead , holding him back , so should logically be a little careful about having Max likely wanting that first corner to be his .
    And , he also wouldn't have imagined that Kimi would get such a stormer of a take off , thus , was startled when he saw him there .

    Max , in the moments before the start , would have figured Seb would back out , if he went in hard .
    That's logical , but he forgot about the Finn .
    So , small "stupid points" for him , but then , he had nothing to lose .

    For Kimi , he shouldn't have moved right at all , but I'm sure , from the look of it , that he thought he was through , and on for taking the first corner , himself .
    Small , but significant misjudgment , so small "stupid points" for him , too .


    But , the colossal failure on the big picture side , and huge "stupid points" haul was for Mr. Vettel , who even prompted the whole of the Italian press to burn the reds for not getting that they had to have those points at that track .
    The red mist we have seen in the past clouded the season vision for Seb and he lost the plot entirely .

    Though he didn't technically do anything wrong , he could have stayed a little wider and may have watched Max and Kimi take each other out . It might have taken perhaps a meter less swerve .
    That meter just burned a lot of any championship hope out of his and his team's year .

    Two guys with nothing to lose , wanting to win , and another with all to lose , going in just as hard .


    Wait now .
    Add some "stupid points" to both Kimi and Max , especially , because they both should have known that Seb is like this , getting a little misty when the pressure is really on .

  10. Likes: AndyL (20th September 2017),Mia 01 (20th September 2017),N4D13 (19th September 2017)
  11. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warriwa View Post
    Pole sitters who get bad starts always move across. I am fascinated and enjoy the differences in everyone's opinion of this incident. I agree with the stewards decision a racing incident. I apportion a greater percentage of blame onto Max. Kimi held his line. Max initiated all of the contact when he turned into Kimi. As I see it, he had an opportunity to back out of it and chose not to, or, his situational awareness was poor because he failed to look in his mirrors. Once again, Max was in a position where contact was made with other drivers. It keeps happening, it seems only a few of us tend to notice.

    Watch it again... Kimi did in fact alter his line... just as Max stopped moving towards (or at very least reduced his vector towards) Kimi.

    Max is 0% at fault here.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  12. #108
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Whichever way you apportion blame for the collision (and I really can't see how Max is culpable), it was just a boneheaded move by Vettel.

    His one goal for the weekend was to stay in front of Hamilton and try to exploit the fleeting advantage that the Ferrari had at that track to retake the championship lead. And off the line he decides to slice across the track to try to cut off Max, who doesn't even figure in the championship. Even if he hadn't ended up wrecking several cars, he'd still have been off line for T1, ceding an advantage to Hamilton, who like Alonso stayed over as far left as possible. I don't get it. What was that plan here?

  13. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warriwa View Post
    Pole sitters who get bad starts always move across. I am fascinated and enjoy the differences in everyone's opinion of this incident. I agree with the stewards decision a racing incident. I apportion a greater percentage of blame onto Max. Kimi held his line. Max initiated all of the contact when he turned into Kimi. As I see it, he had an opportunity to back out of it and chose not to, or, his situational awareness was poor because he failed to look in his mirrors. Once again, Max was in a position where contact was made with other drivers. It keeps happening, it seems only a few of us tend to notice.
    Pole sitters do that some times but it's always a risky manoeuvre. Why Seb did that when at most he would lose a position or two in the first corner is beyond me. He only had to stay ahead of Hamilton, he had the car to win even if he lost a position. And that he did it in those conditions even makes it more inexplicable.

    People analysing this here are all failing to notice that Max only begins moving left towards Kimi in response to Vettels sharp cut across the track. He didn't move left before Vettel did. All of this was instigated by Vettel. He would be leading the championship by over 15 points now had he not had such a brain fart moment.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 20th September 2017 at 21:56.

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  15. #110
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    So it appears those in the know notice the favouritism afforded towards Ferrari and Vettel - further backs up why Vettel received no post race punishment after Baku.

    Speaking to Motorsport-Magazin.com before the stewards deemed no driver ‘predominantly to blame’, Verstappen Snr. predicted Vettel would escape punishment so as not to affect the championship battle further.

    He said. "Maybe it's a political excuse because Vettel cannot allow anything.

    "If they give a real punishment, the championship will be over. That's why I do not think there's anything there."
    Anyway, I still think the Stewards got it right on this occasion for once.

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