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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    I have said 3 times EXACTLY the same.That you don't have explanation about youe statement,doesnt mean that your mates ''twist'' their opinions. You could say that I just said something stupid,and icant explain it.
    I do not think you write anything that's stupid, at all. But I do not understand what you misunderstand of what I'm writing, is my English so bad?
    I do not understand why you can not answer who these plenty are that would have won if I'm right; that there is no big difference between snow / ice and different types of gravel.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    I do not think you write anything that's stupid, at all. But I do not understand what you misunderstand of what I'm writing, is my English so bad?
    I do not understand why you can not answer who these plenty are that would have won if I'm right; that there is no big difference between snow / ice and different types of gravel.
    I will not bother with you more.What I wrote is at previous posts.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanvurpa View Post
    actually with "pretty good" tires its better grip.. I cannot imagine what it would be like with fresh new Nordic spec winter studs on a car..
    Jan is not only tyres'' that have grip'',its the roads, its the banks,its the suspension tuning etc.
    grip is not the same at all stages,hard packed,fresh snow,melt etc What requires a fine suspension, cant be find with just ,once per year vs years competitionat at these conditions.
    using the snow banks is not something you will find again once a year,vs plenty of years touching the banks,and recognizing where you can and where you will destroy the car.
    Same at tarmac.One rally 4stages,4 different asphalt surfaces,that requires different clicks at shocks, different center diff programm,different tyre pressures,even different compound and different tyre make.A northern driver will, not manage to know all these if he competes once a year,and when he started to compete at asphalt(or snow for a Southern) at the age of 24-26-28 years old.

  4. #24
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    Why continental Europeans (including Britain) have not won more rally Sweden can be explained in other ways than blaming snow.
    I have already explained why Carlos, Colin and Didier did not win and argued that there were other rallies than Sweden they did not win in too.
    That Loeb does not win more Rally Sweden is due to the car, most likely. Citroen had a large tire wear when a lot of frozen gravel appeared. Ford was almost always better on slippery roads, both on mud and snow. Loeb won one of two opportunities to win rally Norway
    When Petter went to Ford in 99 had relatively little experience with snow (few rally), from then on, he drove (like almost everyone in WRC) only one race on snow per year, Sweden. Even he managed to win this rally once (like Loeb). I will dedicate this victory with great help from Mækinen and Pirelly, not much experience on snow. The fact that Mækinen, Grønholm and Latvala have had Sweden as their favorite rally (in addition to Finland of course) have also not benefited South European victories.
    In addition, we do not need to explain why Loeb and Ogier have won rally Britain 7 times, while Tommy Mækinen never won there.
    And if you think Latvala and Mikkelsen have many years of snow experience, you're wrong. They started driving in Great Britain when they were 17 and have run around the world after that. Ogier who has won many Swedish does not have this experience either. But what they have is extensive experience on varied road surfaces.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    Jan is not only tyres'' that have grip'',its the roads, its the banks,its the suspension tuning etc.
    grip is not the same at all stages,hard packed,fresh snow,melt etc What requires a fine suspension, cant be find with just ,once per year vs years competitionat at these conditions.
    using the snow banks is not something you will find again once a year,vs plenty of years touching the banks,and recognizing where you can and where you will destroy the car.
    Same at tarmac.One rally 4stages,4 different asphalt surfaces,that requires different clicks at shocks, different center diff programm,different tyre pressures,even different compound and different tyre make.A northern driver will, not manage to know all these if he competes once a year,and when he started to compete at asphalt(or snow for a Southern) at the age of 24-26-28 years old.

    yes yes..I was speaking of only tire grip on "normal winter roads" versus summer and really I was comparing summer Dirtwhich actually is better than most gravel on a hard bed..
    Naturally all those other things are factors on how a driver does his job...and yeah I began disassembling shocks and learning what to do in winter now over 40 years ago...doesn't mean I know a goddam thing about any kind of asphalt---except it is all treacherous.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanvurpa View Post
    actually with "pretty good" tires its better grip.. I cannot imagine what it would be like with fresh new Nordic spec winter studs on a car..But I was in Sweden to learn a profession and I did a lot of very serious training with "pretty OK" moto-cross tires with 300 rally studs and I tell you it was much better than summer for grip..
    Indeed it taught me a lot about what I was doing wrong in summer..
    We have winter event in Lithuania with ice/snow roads and average speed is higher than summer on gravel, so it means grip is better. One of the reasons why ice/snow events is tricky is due how surface conditions depends on air conditions, in -20 degrees C is superb grip with studded tires, at 0 degrees C there is almost no grip at all. If there is fresh snow on road - it changes everything. So there is many variables - air temperature, ice thickness, there is snow or not, snow amount, snowbanks. I'm sure that everyone rally fan form Nordic know that and much much more
    I love to read your posts, janvanvurpa, although not always understand every american/Swedish expression.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    That Loeb does not win more Rally Sweden is due to the car, most likely.
    Plain wrong. Citroen had multiple dominant cars during the Loeb era, they excelled on all surfaces.

    BTW what Dimvii wrote made perfect sense. You said that snow was same grip as gravel, but if that were true then one would expect different nationalities to win, just like they do at other gravel events. That's not the case, so Sweden obviously isn't like any normal gravel rally.
    You're so beige, you probably think this signature is about someone else.

  8. Likes: dimviii (1st August 2017)
  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJan View Post
    ... Sweden obviously isn't like any normal gravel rally.
    Snow banks, you got to be brave enough to lean on them.

  10. Likes: AnttiL (1st August 2017)
  11. #29
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    Please guys, this is getting very stupid. I have not said that Sweden is not special, but it's not as special as many want it to be, at least not all years (amount of snow / temperature etc etc). Especially those from Continental Europe who have not driven rally, or at least those who have not driven with "Scandinavian" spikes (studs) at all, think it's very special. If you ask the top drivers, they will certainly say it's a bit special but very fun. Remember: This year, Neuville and Latvala won 6 stages each.
    My reply to the first post was: quote; "I can not agree with that, at least not entirely," and I repeat "at least not entirely".
    This quote is not to misunderstand, or?
    Try not to read what I'm writing as the devil wanted to read the Bible. We are nice boys, are we not?
    Then I try to explain why I do not "totally" agree: Quote: "Some gravel are more simular to snow and ice, than to some other kind of gravel".
    This means that there are very large differences in gravel roads around the world as well, and especially large are these differences when weather changes (rain).

    And I repeat; Despite the well-known problems that Citroen had in Sweden, Loeb managed to win there and in Norway. He also became No. 2 after Ogier in 2013 in front of Latvala.

    Are there any common thing for those who win rally all over the world, yes.
    And I quote: they have extensive experience on varied road surfaces.

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