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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    Plenty, who? Of the big one's, it's rarest that not Colin, Carlos and Didier ever won. Colin and Carlos were very close on several occasions. It was only unfortunate circumstances that caused them not to win. Even Didier was in charge and could have won if he was not disqualified or added time for help outside the service area.
    But: Carlos never won in Australia either, Didier also did not win in Britania or Portugal.

    Gravel is not simular to gravel either. Some gravel are more simular to snow and is than to some other form of gravel.
    I didn't said that plenty have won,the opposite I said.
    so give us your explanation why South European they haven't succeed at Sweden,when ''snow grip is as gravel''
    And give us your explanation why Finish drivers don't succeed at asphalt events.

  2. #12
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    The secret in Sweden used to be leaning to snowbanks, the Scandinavians knew how to do that, but the Southern Europeans couldn't do it. Nowadays there's less snow anyway.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    I didn't said that plenty have won,the opposite I said.
    so give us your explanation why South European they haven't succeed at Sweden,when ''snow grip is as gravel''
    And give us your explanation why Finish drivers don't succeed at asphalt events.
    You write if it was equal, plenty of southern Europeans would have won or had success, then I answer plenty who? Who are the plenty you think could or would have been successful?
    Who are these plenty who have won all over the world and who have not been able to win in Sweden because snow is so special?
    Then I try to help, maybe you just mean the three I mention, and so I explain why. Coincidences. And there are other rally they have not won too.

    Gravel or gravel roads around the world (and Europe) are very different. From volcanic gravel of different grades on the Azores, to roll gravel in Australia on roads without ditches. Sweden is no more special than the most special gravel around the world Everyone who wants to get to the top of the WRC must learn, I would say less special.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    You write if it was equal, plenty of southern Europeans would have won or had success, then I answer plenty who? Who are the plenty you think could or would have been successful?
    Who are these plenty who have won all over the world and who have not been able to win in Sweden because snow is so special?
    Then I try to help, maybe you just mean the three I mention, and so I explain why. Coincidences. And there are other rally they have not won too..
    I mean the opposite.NOT plenty south European drivers have won.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    Gravel or gravel roads around the world (and Europe) are very different. From volcanic gravel of different grades on the Azores, to roll gravel in Australia on roads without ditches. Sweden is no more special than the most special gravel around the world Everyone who wants to get to the top of the WRC must learn, I would say less special.
    so I am waiting the explanation why Swedish/Finland drivers have won 30+ times and only 4 times South Europe drivers?

  5. #15
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    so I am waiting the explanation why Swedish/Finland drivers have won 30+ times and only 4 times South Europe drivers?
    how about

    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    The secret in Sweden used to be leaning to snowbanks, the Scandinavians knew how to do that, but the Southern Europeans couldn't do it. Nowadays there's less snow anyway.

  6. Likes: electroliquid (1st August 2017),janvanvurpa (1st August 2017),pantealex (1st August 2017)
  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    how about
    its not the only one that makes it specific rally.For sure its one of the reason.This doesn't happening at any other wrc event.

  8. #17
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    [QUOTE=dimviii;1149232]I mean the opposite.NOT plenty south European drivers have won.

    Is this posible, you twist the answer one more time, i give up.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post
    Can not agree with that, at least not entirely. For Russians, baltic (maybe also Polish) and of course Scandinavians, Swedish is not a special rally. They are used with tires that have 20mm studs (6-8mm overhang). They are also used to fast relatively wide forest roads.
    (Believe it or not) Driving with spikes is also very similar to various types of gravel.
    And with this reasoning, I think Monte is more specific also for most drivers.

    Coach, my good friend I lived in Sweden for may years and drove millions of miles on Swedish gravel roads and some are quite wide and very very good surface. I wasn't a rally driver then so I didn't give it a lot of thought. Then.

    Of course once I was a rally driver (1984) I, we, all looked at every video we could find...And then I began returning for business (my business was a specialty Saab business emphasis on whole car builds--basically I made rally cars tthat had interiors and taller final drive for "fast road use") and then asked friends in the business about stages and THEN suddenly I was shocked senseless...
    Many many were EXTREMELY narrow...

    But even now if you look at WRC vids or even (much better) District level Grupp H events the roads you see on the vids look broad and smooth..

    So I thought and I think fairly certain the reason you see wide and smooth roads is because---and that's usually going along edges of fields---is because that's where a cameraman can film some action for some duration...because its fields..
    If they were deep in the woods, first there no place to stand and second they could only see the car ZIP! for 1 second maybe if lucky 2 seconds..
    Around the fields are those chest deep ditches and IN the woods there are stumps of trees and rocks often just 5 cm from the edge of the road..
    In short I was scared sh1tless how narrow the roads were, how sometimes chewed up and how fast even locals were all relative to here in Festung Amerika...

    In 1993 I visit Monte Carlo because I was "homesick" for France..it was 14 years since I lived and raced all over France...and then went up to Sweden and bought some junky Citroen and went out to Värmland for WRC Sweden...I drove out from several SS after last car and then I get to see how insanely rutted the roads were..VERY! deep ruts and no snow after the first cars, it gets compressed into ICE...

    Very special events..very tricky roads..Unique? Finland and Sweden...Monte? a classic but really not since the dropping of the "Concentration Run"..Just a very narrow set of roads and the potential for mixed conditions.
    1993 for example clean asphalt for every stage. So it was just an asphalt event...
    John Vanlandingham
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    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  10. Likes: electroliquid (1st August 2017)
  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach 2 View Post

    Is this posible, you twist the answer one more time, i give up.
    I have said 3 times EXACTLY the same.That you don't have explanation about youe statement,doesnt mean that your mates ''twist'' their opinions. You could say that I just said something stupid,and icant explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    having grip at snow,is not similar to gravel.If it was similar we had seen plenty south Europe drivers to succeed at Sweden.
    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    I didn't said that plenty have won,the opposite I said.
    so give us your explanation why South European they haven't succeed at Sweden,when ''snow grip is as gravel''
    And give us your explanation why Finish drivers don't succeed at asphalt events.
    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    I mean the opposite.NOT plenty south European drivers have won.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimviii View Post
    having grip at snow,is not similar to gravel.If it was similar we had seen plenty south Europe drivers to succeed at Sweden.
    actually with "pretty good" tires its better grip.. I cannot imagine what it would be like with fresh new Nordic spec winter studs on a car..But I was in Sweden to learn a profession and I did a lot of very serious training with "pretty OK" moto-cross tires with 300 rally studs and I tell you it was much better than summer for grip..
    Indeed it taught me a lot about what I was doing wrong in summer..

    I think the differences is what I was saying above, the narrowness and high speeds, and of course the depth of good drivers in a given start field..
    I have seen Finnish F-cup events where in the "senior" class 1st thru 56th, the entire class on every SS was within 1 minute SS time. I don't see that kind of depth in other countries.. hell here in Merikuh we see minutes between cars in same class per stage...

    Good point at the end..It was big news the first time somebody other than a Swede or a Finn won in Sweden---or Finland and only a very few have ever..
    John Vanlandingham
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