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  1. #11
    Senior Member OldF's Avatar
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    Why invent the wheel again when the R1 class already exist. They are not so cheap either but its never cheap to drive rallies.

    Price of the Ford Fiesta R1 kit is 7 500 (about 8 500 ). In addition to the kit a donor car is needed and assembling of the kit, roll-cage etc.
    http://www.m-sport.co.uk/images/R1_S...update2014.pdf

    Price of the Citroen DS3 R1 kit is 10 500 .
    http://boutique.citroenracing.com/cm...16733d7068.pdf
    Dont eat the yellow snow Frank Zappa

  2. Likes: Rallyper (22nd July 2017)
  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GravelBen View Post
    Suggesting R2 cars for national championships is is just plain stupid though.
    Like I said in the BRC thread, Mahonen should think twice about speaking to journalists with a half-baked plan. Lots of things start to get reported as fact, like the idea the FIA want R2 as the leading class for all national championships.

    Is that what Mahonen actually said, or how he meant it? It's not really clear - but that's out there now.
    My rally photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/albums

  4. #13
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmi View Post
    Like I said in the BRC thread, Mahonen should think twice about speaking to journalists with a half-baked plan. Lots of things start to get reported as fact, like the idea the FIA want R2 as the leading class for all national championships.

    Is that what Mahonen actually said, or how he meant it? It's not really clear - but that's out there now.
    Autosport article is confusing; I believe Mahonen was defending the use of a less expensive R2 junior category (a sort of R2 light, like the Fiesta used at the French Junior Championship) in national series, not the promotion of R2 as top national rally category.

    Honestly, all ideas to revamp the junior series are welcomed but theres a bigger picture FIA is missing for a long time: homologated cars (from R1 to R5) are few and expensive, as they're mainly developed by official tuners. We really need a more flexible homologation system to allow private tuners to supply a wider and cheaper range of rally cars, like we used to have in the 80s and 90s.
    Rally addict since 1982

  5. Likes: electroliquid (22nd July 2017),kure91 (22nd July 2017),Mirek (21st July 2017),OldF (21st July 2017),skarderud (20th July 2017),steve.mandzij (20th July 2017),vino_93 (5th August 2017)
  6. #14
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    Honestly, all ideas to revamp the junior series are welcomed but theres a bigger picture FIA is missing for a long time: homologated cars (from R1 to R5) are few and expensive, as they're mainly developed by official tuners. We really need a more flexible homologation system to allow private tuners to supply a wider and cheaper range of rally cars, like we used to have in the 80s and 90s.
    There's two sides to that: if we would have more freedom in developing the cars then the guys with bigger wallet would win the races with faster cars, whereas now it's more even.

    I like the current system with WRC cars for the WRC series, R5 cars for WRC2 and national series, but I'm not sure what should be below that...

  7. Likes: pantealex (21st July 2017)
  8. #15
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    The WRC support categories need a revamp. I don't even know why WRC3 still exists. It's useless.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  9. #16
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    There's two sides to that: if we would have more freedom in developing the cars then the guys with bigger wallet would win the races with faster cars, whereas now it's more even.
    You got it wrong mate. I'm talking about freedom of homologation procedures, which nowadays are mainly oriented to manus interests. Gr.N/A rules forced manus to allow private tuners to prepare almost any of their cars; in result we had a vast range of homologated models and we could have them prepared at affordable prices by any local rally tuner.

    Nowadays we have only a handful of models at each class of Gr. R, provided (at very expensive prices) by the manus official tuners or rally departments. IMO, that’s not the best way to make the sport more accessible and popular.

    Btw, you can get an idea of the large number of homologated cars available for rally in the 80’s and 90’s here http://historicdb.fia.com/cars/list (just choose between Gr.A or N and insert a year).
    Last edited by Rally Power; 20th July 2017 at 20:57.
    Rally addict since 1982

  10. Likes: AnttiL (20th July 2017),janvanvurpa (20th July 2017),OldF (21st July 2017),skarderud (20th July 2017),vino_93 (5th August 2017)
  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    You got it wrong mate. I'm talking about freedom of homologation procedures, which nowadays are mainly oriented to manus interests. Gr.N/A rules forced manus to allow private tuners to prepare almost any of their cars; in result we had a vast range of homologated models and we could have them prepared at affordable prices by any local rally tuner.

    .
    Spot on. Up until the demise of Gp N & A anyone could build their own car up to the same homologated specification as the factory team cars.

  12. Likes: smokingjoe (21st July 2017)
  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    You got it wrong mate. I'm talking about freedom of homologation procedures, which nowadays are mainly oriented to manus interests. Gr.N/A rules forced manus to allow private tuners to prepare almost any of their cars; in result we had a vast range of homologated models and we could have them prepared at affordable prices by any local rally tuner.

    Nowadays we have only a handful of models at each class of Gr. R, provided (at very expensive prices) by the manus official tuners or rally departments. IMO, that’s not the best way to make the sport more accessible and popular.
    .
    But it is a great way for Dave Richards/Prodrive, malcom Wilson/M-sport etc to make lots of millions of Pounds Sterling...

    Somebody had said something about "but then rich guys can simply buy all the best stuff and" I guess presumably win-win-win...

    Well truth is in car competition its always been that way...

    But it least on loose surfaces, gravel and snow, that wasn't an assurance of victory

    But at least a person COULD put together a damn near top spec car...no rule prevented anybody from having one...
    The currrent thing that only Factory drivers get the car with bigger restrictor, and more aero, that's is so stupid that I can't think of an equivalent metaphor...

    Maybe if it was 1500m foot race the rule says ""last years winner gets a 400m head start, and ll you guys who entered yourselves must wear 5kg lead weights on you ankles."

    Or if it was shooting with rifles "last years top 6 get new rifles with excellent 4x scope and the target is closer, the rest get old muskets with less than any sights, and target 300m further away...let the best man win"

    It would be seen as a farce.
    John Vanlandingham
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  14. Likes: Rallyper (22nd July 2017)
  15. #19
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk2 RS2000 View Post
    Spot on. Up until the demise of Gp N & A anyone could build their own car up to the same homologated specification as the factory team cars.
    I just remember the national home built group A cars from the 90's that were for the most part competing with factory bought group N cars

  16. Likes: OldF (21st July 2017),pantealex (21st July 2017)
  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I just remember the national home built group A cars from the 90's that were for the most part competing with factory bought group N cars
    Same.

    And all those great 2wd F2 cars were factory built...

    Home built n-cars were competitive but very boring to watch (corolla gt, kadett/astra, integra)
    "quattro best 4wd rallycar ever"

  18. Likes: AnttiL (21st July 2017),janvanvurpa (22nd July 2017),OldF (21st July 2017)

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