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  1. #91
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    But Tour de Corse used to be one of the longest events, not by the number of days, but by stage hours. The drivers would spend four hours on stages a day, the same amount a 1000 Lakes Rally would last in total.

    Rallying was more endurance based up until the Group B ended, then it became more speed oriented. Even the "Grand Prix" event, 1000 Lakes Rally used to have just two legs until 1985, a normal Friday evening leg and then a second leg which lasted for 24 hours with only lunch and dinner breaks, driving all night with no sleep in between. I think it's fair to say that you don't race it up to the tenths of second on the last hours of that leg.
    That’s the point I was trying to make; more than the number of competitive days or total stage kms, what keeps puzzling me is the short effort drivers are subjected each rally day. Driving around 140 competitive km’s for a little more than 1 hour in a full day leg is simply too short and looks a bit effortless; obviously it isn’t, especially considering the high performance of today’s cars, but nevertheless there’s room to make each rally day more physically demanding.

    Instead of the 9 to 5 we could have a 6 to 12 (am/pm) marathon leg comprising 250 stage kms, with one or two service halts and an inline route replacing the boring ‘morning/afternoon’ identical loops. With this one only big leg on Saturday, plus a proper qualifying stage on Friday and a nice SSS run for Tele purposes (without counting for the classification) before Sunday’s podium ceremony, I honestly believe that we could get a new breed of sprint WRC events, more exciting to see and follow. In addition to those 10 or 12 short events we still would need 4 grand slam iconic events (Monte, GB (RAC inspired), NZ and Argentina), with 3 or 4 competitive days and a 600 stage kms limit.

    I know, this is daydreaming as, like many of you already said, it’s not expectable to see big layout changes under the current exciting WRC environment. We’ll probably have to stick with some random event replacements and pray to Rally Gods for keeping manus loyal to the series.

    Btw, even if WRC events became shorter after Gr.B, the real revolution was at the beginning of the 00’s, when Mr. Richard took ISC control and imposed the single service park, the clover leaf format, the 9 to 5 schedule and Sunday’s mini leg. All this, allegedly, to bring TV and mass media into WRC; 17 years after we’re still looking for them…
    Rally addict since 1982

  2. Likes: AndyRAC (12th July 2017),jparker (12th July 2017),the sniper (11th July 2017)
  3. #92
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Could you please be more detailed about why and how would it make rallying "more exciting to see and follow" if all the stage kilometres were run on one day? More physically demanding so we would see more crashes towards the end of the day or we would see some drivers drive 80% speed because they just want to finish? Henri Toivonen said in one of his last interviews that driving for hours a day in a modern fast car is "too much for the brain". Also, we would have no rally 2 at all in this format?

    I would also love to have more inline routes vs repetitions but there's obviously many practical reasons why running a stage twice is easier and cheaper to arrange than two separate stages. Also probably easier for a tourist spectator to stay in the same place for two stages than to switch stage.

    Yes, rallying isn't as popular as it was 20 years ago, but you cannot claim it's because we have the single service park regulations and short days etc. Maybe if we would have had the old regulations all along, we wouldn't have WRC rallying at all anymore because no manufacturer could afford it?

    Meanwhile, I like your idea about having events of different lengths, like a long GB rally and a long Monte with shorter Sweden and Finland, but the short rallies could stay as they are now.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 11th July 2017 at 17:32.

  4. #93
    Senior Member Eli's Avatar
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    It's funny seeing people calling Portugal & Mexico tough rallies, I mean really? the closest thing today we have to the Acropolis Rally is Rally Italia Sardegna. What the FIA & Promoter should do (but probably won't 'cause they love their bucks) is bring back Italy to Sanremo as a mixed event, first day tarmac & the next 2 days gravel or vice versa, after that make RACC a full proper tarmac event with night stages (as they did back in 2013), when they finish with those 2 events, take away Coffs coat's rally Australia & let NZ join in the fray. After that, since Poland might be leaving us, bring back Acropolis instead (as Poland took it's place since 2014), and if they really want add Cyprus, Japan & Ireland....but hey, why would they do that if it doesn't bring them any money?....
    If in doubt, flat out!

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  6. #94
    Senior Member BigWorm's Avatar
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    I think it's a shame China won't be appearing anytime soon, was a perfect fit with both being an Asian and a tarmac event.

  7. #95
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Could you please be more detailed about why and how would it make rallying "more exciting to see and follow" if all the stage kilometres were run on one day? More physically demanding so we would see more crashes towards the end of the day or we would see some drivers drive 80% speed because they just want to finish? Henri Toivonen said in one of his last interviews that driving for hours a day in a modern fast car is "too much for the brain".
    From my experience (only Portugal and Spain), and according to what is told about others WRC events, most of the time spectators can only see a SS in the morning and another one at the afternoon (luckily also a SSS, if that’s the case), during a rally day. It’s not hard to believe that in a long marathon leg we could managed to see in one day almost the number of stages that currently can be seen in a whole rally, with no boring loop breaks and getting a bit of the old day’s rush. Those at home (let’s be frank, besides a handful of motorsport forums dedicated members, how many guys actually follow the all 2 and a half days?) would also have the chance to keep up in a more thrilling way, without those huge breaks between loops and legs (sometimes one almost forget there’s still a rally going on).

    For sure the clover leaf format still makes sense for rally’s being disputed in several days, but it’s not necessary if we could have sprint rally’s based on a long single leg. Btw, I also believe it wouldn’t be more dangerous to drivers: probably it’d make them develop a different driving approach, a bit like Formula guys do when driving at Le Mans.

    Honestly I’m not regretting to have lost the (alleged) glorious old days; I’m just thinking on feasible alternatives to the 9 to 5 rally ‘office’ schedule, believing that actually it’s possible to bring up a more adventurous side of rally, which was present in past eras and hugely helped to forge our sport charisma.
    Rally addict since 1982

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  9. #96
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Actually looking at the average speeds on juwra, seems that Cyprus would be something different indeed to the season because the winning average speeds have been only 60-70 km/h whereas the current rough gravel events or Acropolis have more like 80-90 km/h (Argentina closer to 100 in the last two years).

    EDIT: Should have gone to ewrc for more recent results, apparently now it's a mixed surface event that's again faster...
    It is not so much mixed surface event, this year it was again more gravel one. But it is interesting mixture.

  10. #97
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liposh View Post
    IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.
    I dont agree with you. Cyprus has much bigger potential to be interesting event. Because it is really DIFFERENT than Mexico, Sardegna or Portugal. Entry list and competition on Cyprus was not so bad, but unfortunatelly lot of good drivers retired soon...

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  12. #98
    Senior Member Andre Oliveira's Avatar
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    As i said on Cyprus thread: Cyprus and Acropolis only prove one thing, its places are in WRC. Rally use to be brutal to cars and drivers.

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  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post

    Btw, even if WRC events became shorter after Gr.B, the real revolution was at the beginning of the 00’s, when Mr. Richard took ISC control and imposed the single service park, the clover leaf format, the 9 to 5 schedule and Sunday’s mini leg. All this, allegedly, to bring TV and mass media into WRC; 17 years after we’re still looking for them…
    Exactly! Events were still a proper test - what I'd still define as Rallying; rather than what we have now which is almost Rally-lite. It is the equivalent of turning the Le Mans 24 Hours into the 6 Hours of Le Mans on the Bugatti circuit.

    And I remember the uproar from certain writers bemoaning the changes. The teams & manufacturers were pleased as they were promised riches beyond belief; TV & sponsor money would roll in and WRC would threaten F1 in the global market.

    Er, it didn't really happen - it was unsustainable. And we're not really any further on 17 years later.


    I agree with RallyPower; you can keep most events as they are, fine no issues. However, some can become a short, sharp sprint event; Thursday/ Friday night SSS, followed by maybe 1 day of intense action - you could even repeat the stages in the reverse direction. Drivers are fitter than they've ever been, and if a driver can do a non stop 2-3 hour stint in an Endurance race, then a top WRC driver shouldn't have a problem with an intense day of action broken up between stages. You design the event so there aren't driver tiredness/ health issues.
    WRC: On the long way to Recovery............
    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

  15. Likes: jparker (12th July 2017),Simmi (12th July 2017),sonnybobiche (12th July 2017)
  16. #100
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    you could even repeat the stages in the reverse direction.
    This is not really possible. For example the spectator areas are differently safe to different directions and the ruts to the road probably make it tricky to drive to the wrong direction, etc.

    BTW the rally stage length was limited to 400 kms already in 1997.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 12th July 2017 at 11:21.

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