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  1. #61
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    At Baku, F1 finally got our full attention and we eagerly await the Spielberg showdown.
    Indeed. Either way, the rest of the season should be one for the ages. Spielberg should be interesting, but I have a strong suspicion that one of the Ferraris will be driven by Antonio Giovinazzi.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think the 2017 season just started in earnest in Baku. We have a rivalry akin to the Rosberg-Hamilton showdown of 2016. To make it interesting, it is a German vs British in the vein of Hill Vs Schumacher, Hamilton vs Rosberg etc.

    The controversy is sweet and we enthuse over all aspect of it with emotion and passion as two Colossus of modern day F1 do battle for the honour of winning the 2017 driver's title. If anything, it is clearly crunch time and Vettel lets out a yell as he does the Vetbang on Hamilton. The rest of the season is faced with a challenge to emulate this spectacular and highly bizzare Baku race. The price of error remains high as is the cost of dwelling on an emerging problem to Force India's disappointment.

    At Baku, F1 finally got our full attention and we eagerly await the Spielberg showdown.
    This is very true. There has been more debate and passion in this microcosm of a forum then there has been in a long time. Everyone's juices are flowing and I imagine there will be a bigger audience for the next race than there would have been otherwise. Bad for the sporting image, but good for the sport, which has been seeing declining interest for a while. It's the WWF of auto racing. Can everybody say NASCAR ya'll?
    "Old roats am jake mit goats."
    -- Smokey Stover

  3. #63
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Personally this season had my full attention before this clusterf#$k. If Vettel didn't go "mental" he would have won the race (assuming his initial contact with LH didn't dislodge his neck support)and increased his lead in the WDC. So now we have this polarizing event. I was pulling for "The Boss", now I'm still pulling for him, maybe a little harder. The key for me is that the future races resemble Baku, not the processions that have become all too common.
    Roll on Austria!
    May the forza be with you

  4. #64
    Senior Member Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstgear View Post
    The purpose of the penalty was to humiliate. If they really wanted to hand him a harsh penalty they would have banned him for X races in the following season.
    The purpose of the penalty should have been to say what is and isn't acceptable. Deliberately taking out your rivals should not be acceptable, period. I would have banned Senna after Suzuka, I would have banned Schumacher after Jerez and I would have banned Vettel after Baku. I don't care if the incident happened at 200mph or 2mph - the principle is identical.
    The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!

  5. Likes: The Black Knight (29th June 2017)
  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    I respectfully disagree; I think it matters whether the contact was intended to just bang wheels or to actually take out the other driver.




    I agree with that to a large extent, except for this: The fact that it was the last race of the season, and the championship was on the line, helped establish the that the intent was to take Villeneuve out of the race.
    You can never fully judge intent. No one actually knows if Schumachers intent was to take JV out 100% except Schumacher. Maybe he just wanted to make him hobble and finish second. You can only base it upon what you see the action was. Once you start bringing in interpretation to the rules which have been set out, which is the main reason why we have such inconsistency in F1 to begin with, then you will never have consistency. For consistency he should he excluded from the championship.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstgear View Post
    Jerez doesn't apply because the penalty meant nothing towards the championship. They took away points from a championship he had already lost. Before the penalty, his chances of winning were 0.0% That didn't reduce after the penalty. The purpose of the penalty was to humiliate. If they really wanted to hand him a harsh penalty they would have banned him for X races in the following season.

    I say ban him from the next race or take away his points from Baku. And coincidentally, this would be the perfect punishment for the championship race (FIA $$$) as well as it makes things closer in a season that finally has a close rivalry between top teams. Banning Vettel for more than a race would kill the season, so even if it were the right thing to do, it wouldn't happen because there's too much money at stake.
    And why did he lose the championship, because he hit JV. JV was likely to end up on the gravel otherwise. Schumacher ruined his chance of the championship by what he did and had 0% chance of winning so, for consistency, so should Vettel. A 2-3 race ban would be enough to guarantee he doesn't win this years championship anyway, but probably be enough to keep people interested. And since the purpose of removing him from the championship was humiliation, then there is no better way of doing it to Vettel than a season ban.

    My gut is that he will get an extra 3 points on his license and be banned for racing in Austria. My only hope would be that he isn't allowed race under appeal in that circumstance. My real hope is that he will be remove from the season. Whether there is close rivalry this season should not factor into the decision of the punishment he receives.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; 29th June 2017 at 08:28.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    The purpose of the penalty should have been to say what is and isn't acceptable. Deliberately taking out your rivals should not be acceptable, period. I would have banned Senna after Suzuka, I would have banned Schumacher after Jerez and I would have banned Vettel after Baku. I don't care if the incident happened at 200mph or 2mph - the principle is identical.
    Nail on the head.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    I am also getting a little fed up how a bunch of major news outlets are describing the incident.
    Autosport and a few others are going full speed with "war of the world Champs" or "WDC leaders in latest Feud"
    the same outlets and many more others describing it as a Clash of drivers and "who is to blame for the drivers banging wheels"

    To me all that is rubbish. It isn't some kind of he said - he said situation or a scenario where they were clashing with each other or in some kind of feud.
    That would indicate both parties involved in something subjective worthy of trying to apportion blame.

    The simple fact is only one driver clumsily barged into the back of another, and then went on to deliberately drive his car into the other in a fit of rage.
    Hamilton for his part, remained calm and never sought to retaliate or even show any kind of demonstrable aggravation (which I would have done)

    But many media outlets are still playing this up like it is worthy of a debate.
    oh well
    That's hardly a surprise. Despite what people think, the purpose of the media isn't to tell the news, it is to sell a story to keep people interested and coming back for more. CNN has made millions from the fictitious Der narrative over Trump and Russia. There are videos out there which have just been released which clearly show CNN officials saying the Russia new story is a "Nothing-burger" and another stating that it probably is untrue but they have been given a directive by their CEO to harp on about Russia. The reason for it is ratings. The story has made CNN millions, they don't care about the truth, they care about profit. It's no different with any other news network or F1 journalist.

  10. Likes: truefan72 (29th June 2017)
  11. #69
    Admin pino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post

    My gut is that he will get an extra 3 points on his license and be banned for racing in Austria. My only hope would be that he isn't allowed race under appeal in that circumstance. My real hope is that he will be remove from the season. Whether there is close rivalry this season should not factor into the decision of the punishment he receives.
    I really would like to know, what Vettel did to you, when you met him. Must have been something terrible to justify all this hatred towards him. Tell you what, I ve also had many bad experiences, meeting some of mine idols. Well, I didn't start to hate them, or stopped to support them or stopped to buy their music. People are different and not everyone has a nice attitude when you meet them. So If I were Vettel, right now, I would be more afraid of you, than the FIA...
    When you're tired of rallying...you're tired of life

  12. Likes: Mia 01 (29th June 2017),N4D13 (29th June 2017)
  13. #70
    Senior Member Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    You can never fully judge intent. No one actually knows if Schumachers intent was to take JV out 100% except Schumacher.
    Sure you can judge intent - The Man On The Clapham Omnibus test.

    1. Would a reasonable person have forseen the natural and probable consequence of those actions?
    2. Could a reasonable person have foreseen that result, with reference to all the evidence?

    Sure, no one actually knows if Schumacher's intent was to take JV out 100% except Schumacher but you can ask if a reasonable person based on the evidence could have forseen it.

    Aside: Everyone knows what Senna's intent was at Suzuka in 1990. He said as much before the race. He should have been banned forever.
    The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!

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