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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    .

    Baggy you've proposed Freudian psychological affect on Fettel and his team. I don't think those really affect sociopaths, which is the behavior he has exhibited. He needs, and deserves real sanction.

    I was just pointing out that he was made to look stupid , Taz .

    Nobody likes that , even sociopaths .

    I never heard a single comment during all of this mess that said that he deserved no sanction at all . It was all about what degree of sanction he deserved .

    And , just for the record , I think a black flag would have been appropriate at the time , or a race exclusion retrospectively .

    You should not be allowed to do what he did .


    The issue now is that they may now appear to have done this either for the sake of an exciting championship , or specifically for the sake of one specific team or competitor , rather than for the sake of fairness .
    Fairness is what I wish to see , and perhaps we don't know some of the details , though i can't imagine what they'd be to make this a fair decision in the end .


    I get his anger , if he felt he'd been brake-checked , and his actions , but only up until that sideswipe occurred .
    Whether he meant to do it or a mistake , it's worth a harder slap than he got .

    I expect to hear a lot of jeering if he gets on the podium at the next one , and he'll have to field a hell of a lot of questions about all this at the next race , so the nightmare isn't over for Seb by any means .


    For me , with them still close , and the added tension this will make , the season looks still set to be one to remember for a long time .

  2. Likes: donKey jote (4th July 2017),pino (4th July 2017)
  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia 01 View Post
    Both drivers are guilty in this "incident", but someone had to start it.
    Lewis did play his role , Mia , but Seb was right to say it was his own fault .
    Lewis didn't react to Seb being closer on the second restart , but it was not his role to do so .

    I'd guess Vettel expected him to do so , and thus , was caught out .
    A silly error , and an improper assumption led to a dumb move .

  4. Likes: andyone (5th July 2017)
  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I was just pointing out that he was made to look stupid , Taz .

    Nobody likes that , even sociopaths .

    I never heard a single comment during all of this mess that said that he deserved no sanction at all . It was all about what degree of sanction he deserved .

    And , just for the record , I think a black flag would have been appropriate at the time , or a race exclusion retrospectively .

    You should not be allowed to do what he did .


    The issue now is that they may now appear to have done this either for the sake of an exciting championship , or specifically for the sake of one specific team or competitor , rather than for the sake of fairness .
    Fairness is what I wish to see , and perhaps we don't know some of the details , though i can't imagine what they'd be to make this a fair decision in the end .


    I get his anger , if he felt he'd been brake-checked , and his actions , but only up until that sideswipe occurred .
    Whether he meant to do it or a mistake , it's worth a harder slap than he got .

    I expect to hear a lot of jeering if he gets on the podium at the next one , and he'll have to field a hell of a lot of questions about all this at the next race , so the nightmare isn't over for Seb by any means .


    For me , with them still close , and the added tension this will make , the season looks still set to be one to remember for a long time .
    Got it! Yet, anyone that was in as much denial as he was during the race, perplexed about why he was being given his 10 sec. stop and go. Would he even know, or for that matter care he was made to look foolish, or just feel relieved that he got away with his behavior. Only time will tell if he can control his rage. My money says he can't
    Last edited by Tazio; 4th July 2017 at 19:49.
    I have great faith in fools -- Self confidence my friends will call it.


  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Lewis did play his role , Mia , but Seb was right to say it was his own fault .
    Lewis didn't react to Seb being closer on the second restart , but it was not his role to do so .

    I'd guess Vettel expected him to do so , and thus , was caught out .
    A silly error , and an improper assumption led to a dumb move .
    Exactly what role did Lewis play apart from being in the lead of the race and doing exactly as any other driver, including Vettel, might have done?

  7. Likes: andyone (5th July 2017),truefan72 (4th July 2017)
  8. #105
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    the Tour de France folks showed more guts and integrity than the Baku Stewards or the FIA
    That is how you handle the situation and oddly enough it was comparatively similar to what went down in Baku...in terms of behavior intent etc.
    Vettel should at the very least have been DQ's from Baku, stripped of his points and added 1 extra penalty point (for a total of 4)
    Sagan got DQ'd from the entire Tour after initially being docked 30 seconds.
    This was after a swift and decisive inquiry, when the team had the audacity to protest the initial fine.
    FIA could learn a thing or too about integrity and applying punishment, regardless of who you are.
    p.s. I believe Cavendish is done for the tour with a fractured collarbone
    Last edited by truefan72; 4th July 2017 at 22:49.
    you can't argue with results

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  10. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I was just pointing out that he was made to look stupid , Taz .

    Nobody likes that , even sociopaths .

    I never heard a single comment during all of this mess that said that he deserved no sanction at all . It was all about what degree of sanction he deserved .

    And , just for the record , I think a black flag would have been appropriate at the time , or a race exclusion retrospectively .

    You should not be allowed to do what he did .


    The issue now is that they may now appear to have done this either for the sake of an exciting championship , or specifically for the sake of one specific team or competitor , rather than for the sake of fairness .
    Fairness is what I wish to see , and perhaps we don't know some of the details , though i can't imagine what they'd be to make this a fair decision in the end .


    I get his anger , if he felt he'd been brake-checked , and his actions , but only up until that sideswipe occurred .
    Whether he meant to do it or a mistake , it's worth a harder slap than he got .

    I expect to hear a lot of jeering if he gets on the podium at the next one , and he'll have to field a hell of a lot of questions about all this at the next race , so the nightmare isn't over for Seb by any means .


    For me , with them still close , and the added tension this will make , the season looks still set to be one to remember for a long time .
    He was made look stupider for taking 8 days to apologise and then even stupider for issuing an apology where he still deflected some blame and insinuated Lewis had done something wrong. I doubt very much he cares how he looks and the questions at the Austrian GP ain't going to be bothering him a lot either.

  11. Likes: Tazio (4th July 2017),truefan72 (4th July 2017)
  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by truefan72 View Post
    the Tour de France folks showed more guts and integrity than the Baku Stewards or the FIA
    That is how you handle the situation and oddly enough it was comparatively similar to what went down in Baku...in terms of behavior intent etc.
    Vettel should at the very least have been DQ's from Baku, stripped of his points and added 1 extra penalty point (for a total of 4)
    Sagan got DQ'd from the entire Tor after initially being docked 30 seconds.
    this was after a swift and decisive inquiry, when the team had the audacity to protest the initial fine.
    FIA could learn a thing or too about integrity and applying punishment, regardless of who you are.
    p.s. I believe Cavendish is done for the tour with a fractured collarbone
    Stripping Vettel of all championship points earned to date would have been a reasonable punishment as well I feel. That way he can't win the championship but we all still get to enjoy a season long battle between Mercedes and Ferrari.

  13. Likes: driveace (4th July 2017)
  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia 01 View Post
    Both drivers are guilty in this "incident", but someone had to start it.
    Actually no. Just one was at fault here. The fake jolly good fellow was sleeping at the wheel, bumped the mercedes in the back and then decided to take a swipe at Hamilton. He was wrong from start to finish which makes him look quite stupid. And in the end he decided to admit his mistake only to avoid further penalties without showing any real remorse at any point. The guy's a class act. He's the spoilt brat of Formula 1 but it's enough to look at this last episode to understand how we got here. The spoilt brat surely has learnt his lesson now. This decision is 100% wrong.

  15. Likes: driveace (4th July 2017)
  16. #109
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    Lewis surley knows which buttons he triggered whith his actions. His mind game succeded and Vettel got in his trap. Red mist, and the rest is history.

  17. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Exactly what role did Lewis play apart from being in the lead of the race and doing exactly as any other driver, including Vettel, might have done?
    It was Lewis dropping his speed about 30 kph at the end of the corner that caught Sebastian out .
    He wasn't obligated to do it any differently the second time , but Vettel , I think obviously , expected him to have some reaction to him being so much larger in his mirrors .

    I think to look at it from Vettel's point of view before the accident , you see Hamilton slowing significantly , even though he knew Seb was really tight behind .
    And , I think that's where you get Sir Jackie's view that Lewis might have tried to unsettle him before the restart .

    From Lewis's explanation and the radio chat about the safety car close-call , I think we can surmise that Lewis had the restart plan well rehearsed , and , had Seb been able to keep out of the back of him (and note that nobody else in line rear-ended anyone else) , on the brakes slightly faster , it probably would have been a spectacular lead generated by slowing down when he did so .

    It's just not the normal place to be slowing down on a track .
    It was the way he'd done it the first time .
    And , he is allowed to dictate the speed at that point .
    But , his role was pretty clear .

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