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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pino View Post
    but asking for a season ban, or revoke his license, it's just crazy!
    The question is one of intent. Causing a collision is a provision in the rules but deliberately causing a collision?
    The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    The question is one of intent. Causing a collision is a provision in the rules but deliberately causing a collision?
    An admission that it was "deliberate , but instinctual" once resulted in a dropping of points from a whole season .

    I find it interesting that even though we've had a number of people wondering if it was actually intentional or whether it was just a bounce of the elbow on the wheel as he began his gesticulating at Hamilton , we've not heard anything about the second contact at all from Vettel .
    It seems to make sense that he simply screwed up , and seems an easy way out of this sticky mess , even if it isn't really true .

    Coming along side him and waving a WTF at him looked more like what he was up to , and would have been justified , even if only in Seb's head .
    A lot of other drivers would have done the same .
    But , all seem agreed that the hit wasn't on .


    So , why not just say he screwed up while in a tizzy , which is what it looked like , rather than have the question of intent floating out there ?

    It makes him seem guilty as charged .

  3. #43
    Senior Member N. Jones's Avatar
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    Should he get a one race ban? He did bang wheels with Lewis and that's unnecessary.

    Anything harsher than that is drunkin' talk.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    I don't think Vettel actually meant to hit Hamilton's car.
    Wow, l wonder what race you were watching. Jonny Herbert tried to make this point but when viewed from the rear to the front, it was very clearly a deliberate action. You could see that he took great care to align to the tyres of Hamilton's car and violently turned into it.

    What he did not do is unwittingly drift into Hamilton's car, which would have been a gentle drift and impact into Hamilton's tyres. We can undoubtedly rule out mistake due to loss of concentration. We can also undoubtedly state that it was a red mist reaction which was calculated to ensure the action only catches Hamilton's attention without doing damage this his or Hamilton's car.

    I have to say, most in the sky F1 were surprisingly too obvious in trying to dumb this down the severity of the incident. If this was a headbutt, which is the equivalent of the action, l suppose they would be saying it was only a light knock. It kind of diminishes the credibility of that team.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
    It's not the first lenient penalty we've seen this year. A couple of times we've seen 5-second penalties for offenses that gained the driver more than 5 seconds.

    A DQ/black flag would seem like a reasonable response, but it shares the same risk as any other penalty imposed during the race, namely that the driver might retire from the race anyway, and the penalty becomes meaningless.

    I think this was a case that should have been left until after the race. Immediate penalties are fine for the common cases of incidents caused by error or overstepping the bounds of fair racing, or technical infringements. But if you're looking at someone for a deliberate act of aggression, that needs more consideration. You need to evaluate the degree of intent, which is a more subtle question than the simple mechanics of who was to blame for a collision.

    I'm sure if the stewards had considered this incident in a less hasty manner after the race, a heavier penalty would have been given.

    I think you are quite correct in some respects. I am not sure degree of intent would have much bearing here. Intent was demonstrated by driving up alongside Hamilton. In this circumstances, even an accidental bump due to loss of focus would have been punishable. The real problem here was a clear demonstration of aggression which involved him using his vehicle as a weapon to intimidate another driver. This is what was very serious and the very point that made the stewards decision on the matter very questionable.

    I think it could be very damaging for the sport if the FIA appear lenient as it would show nonchalance on the matter.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 28th June 2017 at 17:31.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
    William Shakespeare

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrodaze View Post
    the point is, . . . They need to ensure that the decisions of the stewards are applied equally to all drivers regardless of whether they are world champions or not. . .
    . . . There is clear favoritism displayed here and it is ugly.
    qft.
    The secret to winning races: More Throttle, Less Brake.

  7. #47
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    I haven't read all of the replies, but regarding the thread title, I think it depends on if you are a Vettel supporter or not.

    I like him (and I like Hamilton too, incidentally), so I think not. Although Vettel's actions were at least a bit close to the mark, all I see here are parallels with that of Michael. All things considered, that doesn't amount to a bad thing, in my opinion.

  8. #48
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    Sorry, just to add: I think the concern here is more to do with Vettel's attitude than the actual consequences of his action. If he had knocked Hamilton out of the race then it would have been a different matter.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    I think a one race suspension would be reasonable and proportionate. I don't think anything more than that would be justified (and something like dropping all points or a season ban would be a disaster for the sport; I really don't think that will happen).

    I don't think that the rationale of Jerez '97 really applies here. In that case, we had a championship being decided in the last race of the season, and there needed to be a very strong message that the leader taking out themselves and their only realistic rival in that situation isn't to be tolerated... and I really don't imagine that anybody thinks Vettel was trying to actually crash Hamilton out of the race.

    Vettel's intent is probably going to get talked about a lot. If he did deliberately crash into Hamilton, obviously that would be very bad, but I'm not convinced the alternative of "I lost control of the car because I was angry and took my hands off the steering wheel" is so much better.

    For the record, I don't think it was intentional for him to actually make contact. But he clearly lost control of his car by being stupid and losing his temper. F1 drivers should be better than that, although I understand there's a lot of adrenalin in the cockpit.

  10. #50
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    Vettel should have been black flagged. Not 100% sure how intentional it was, the replays I have seen don't show if he deliberately steered into him, nor is it like he tried to take him out. 10 stop and go wasn't enough.

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