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  1. #1371
    Senior Member Mintexmemory's Avatar
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    Ok this has got out of hand - I shall just delete offensive posts if this continues -for or against.

    Just putting * in a word doesn't make the sentence any less disrespectful!
    Kris Meeke on Fire -VW so terrified they quit!

  2. Likes: steve.mandzij (5th July 2017)
  3. #1372
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKS View Post
    Poland was a first rally with just one rally2 driver and huge "normal" drivers.
    So it's very easy to calculate.
    If we have a 30 min regroup it can put rally2 driver ahead only if 7 "normal" drivers left
    If regroup 45 min - 11 drivers.

    In Portugal Paddon got moved 16 places to start first. Cause the regroup was 1:15 long. Still this is just how things end up as they did for each rally. The important part is what Pluto said: "no rule says that Rally2 cars have to start first on PS"..... so it can end up as a mess if regroup is not long enough. If it was in the rules the organizer would just need to plan long enough regroup.

    This whole Rally2 starting order is this year becoming seriously unfair business. Last year championship order was valid for Saturday as well so it did not show up. But this year on quite many rallies you have people that do their best to keep the car in the rally on friday, only to end up cleaning for 2 whole days. I wonder if at some point cars that loose lot of time to puncture/technical issues etc. end up retiring on purpose on last stage of friday, just to avoid it.

    Just look at Breen in Poland. He lost tons of time with 2wd, so before last stage on Friday he was 7 mins behind nearest "M" nominated car in front of him. Extra 7 mins for retiring in one stage wouldn't change anything and he would avoid sweeping for 2 days.
    I suppose they didn't do it for two reasons:
    1. The car just in front of him was his teammate who still had a real chance of moving up (and did in the end)
    2. Poland is certainly not the worst rally for roadsweeping, particularly with partly wet conditions.

    Another thing is that on some rallies for saturday WRC trophy drivers would start first (Argentina) while on Sardinia, Portugal and in Poland they only turn around 2017 cars.

    Why is all this important? Cause for the most part we have quite close championship as well as individual rallies, so the small differences from running order can have quite large impact. Given that it's not very good how randomly they are set-up.
    Last edited by mknight; 5th July 2017 at 23:08.

  4. #1373
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyfun View Post
    those idiots from estonia are behind all this sh*t
    Excuse me? You obviously have never been spectating in our region then. Our spectating culture is more closer to finnish, although I cannot deny that we have some our own share of idiots as well. Specially when after the win in Sardinia suddenly everybody's a rallyfan.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

  5. Likes: pantealex (6th July 2017),Rally Power (9th July 2017),sindroms (6th July 2017)
  6. #1374
    Senior Member jparker's Avatar
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    Aug 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Yes, I do because this situation is a system failure while some spectator standing wrong is not always such case. I don't bash that much the spectator safety because I know how extremely difficult it is with spectators. You know in my country we have maybe the strcictest spectator regulation in Europe and still we had number of deadly accidents which were nearly in all cases caused by the spectators themselves because they simply ignored the organization.
    Sadly I can't disagree with that, but this alone should not be reason for canceling the event. If other "system failures" have taken place, then let the officials report it. If it's really that bad, then OK, cancel it.

  7. #1375
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
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    Nov 2014
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    Neuville vs Tšnak comparison
    "Some famous quote from some famous person"

  8. Likes: dimviii (6th July 2017)
  9. #1376
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Jan 2017
    Great Britain
    Liked 109 Times in 53 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rallyfiend View Post
    Name another sport that kills its fans?

    Rallying (as whole) does. That's rare.
    Football. Sadly this sport (for all sorts of reasons) is worse than even the Le Mans tragedy of 1955.

  10. #1377
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
    Liked 1,649 Times in 771 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jparker View Post
    Sadly I can't disagree with that, but this alone should not be reason for canceling the event. If other "system failures" have taken place, then let the officials report it. If it's really that bad, then OK, cancel it.
    This "issue" with fire truck was only one stone in the mosaic. But whole safety on Rally Poland was real disaster in the last years, everybody (also from FIA) was talking about it and nothing changed. It is still the same punk and waiting for disaster...

  11. Likes: AnttiL (6th July 2017),pantealex (6th July 2017)
  12. #1378
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    Jan 2017
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    HI, after reading other members reports of Rallly poland, I will tell you our experience in our first visit tot Poland to see the wrc.

    First of all, sorry for my english.

    We bought the 4rstandardr allypasses and a parking stickar thaht was the only thinks we needed during the weekend.

    Arrive at Varsovia at 2 o clock in the night between thursday and friday, so we didn't have time to do anything apart going to the first stage (chimelewo). We arrived there at the beggining of the stage, parked the car in the specattors parking and go on foot to the jumps, we saw people going to the fields, and some going by the road, 4 guys that were crossing a field and wanted to go to the rally road were intimidated by a local farmer with a stick and shouting, not very nice our first impression. During the way there i was so scared taht the marshalls wouldn't let people cross the road during the race, and this means that we couldn't get out from that stage to go to stare juchy. We were at the final jump before the left hander, while zero cars passing, ther were no people in the left field, but during the first cars passing, lot of people went to that field to see things closer (me too), and after some more cars i saw people crossing the road at the take off of the jump so then I realized taht we could get to stare Juchy and not to be locked in the stage. I arrrived in poland thinking that marshals would be very strict, and that was the first think than make me think a bit teh oposite. Ok we decide to move to the other stage and we went by the road, lots of people ther crossing the road and walking in the road between wrc cars, MARSHALLS COULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO THIS AMOUNT OF SpECTATORS. Lot of people standing next to the jumps, not more than 2 meters from the cars, that was very very crazy!!! Ok we reach the parking at the end and start going to stare juchy zone 29. First stage done, and we could saw it where we had planned, so evrything ok for the moment!

    Arrived at stare juchy zone 29 parking, we parked in the field that was a bit of a downhill, maybe problems to get out? we would see that when we return from the stage, That parking was ok and There was a thing that I've seen in all the spectators zones in poland that i found very very useful, and i Haven't seen in other rallyies, the WC, we used them a lot of times so, thanks to the organitzation to put them there.
    Ok we walk through the stage 40 minuts before first car and reach the spot we wanted, on the top of the field, we see a downhill, a straigtht jump, two little tricky jumps and another downhill with heavy cuts and a bit of watersplash. Very nice point of view!!! Also we managed to move a (i don't know the name, the thing from the farmers , that organitzators us to make the chicanes) and stand on the top of it for a greater view, it worked. In this stage I didn't see so much people standing problems like in the previous, but still peolpe very close to the cars in teh 200m across the forest section. After some wrc 2 cars we went to our car to start the way to chimelewo another time, so, 2nd stage that we could see the cars in the place we planned! To get out from the parking, we need to push the car but at least we get out!

    So way to chimelewo zone 7, we stopped at stare juchy to buy some beer and food, and we take it very calmly, and while we were arriving to the spectator zone we saw that we were out of time, we saw the jam in the access of zone 7 and decided to go to the end of the stage to see the cars, even in road mode, but not got stuck in that access. And that was great, no stuck and the first marshall told us that stage was cancelled, and it was ok because we parked the car 50 meters before and we couls drive to stare juchy immediatly!! That was the first stage we planned to see that we couldn't see, but was not problem from us or access roads, was due to the amount of spectators.

    We reach the same parking at the stare juchy zone 29, and went to more or less the same zone, that time my friend stayed to see the downhill after de 2 small jumps and i went to the downhill before the big one jump, in that zones there were no problems with the marshals if you didn't stay next to the road, so you could see in very good spots.

    In that stage we saw almost all the cars! so∑ stagees seen in the places we planned! It was a very nice starting for our rally!!

    After leaving stare juchy we made some rece at kruklanki zone 55 and 56, becaue our plan for staurday was to see 4 stages too.

    Arrive at mikolajki at 10:30 and eat a pizza in the mainplace, next to the ceremony, 2 pizzas and 2 dishes for 100zpl so it wasn't expensive.

    After that more or less at 12:00 we went to baranowo to make some recces to the specattor zone 35, we made it, and we slept in the parking zone next to that access, 2 of use slept ina tent and the other 2 slept in the car, so you can see that we ara not luxury people.

    Last edited by polomayu; 6th July 2017 at 13:36.

  13. Likes: abxyz (6th July 2017),br21 (6th July 2017),NickRally (6th July 2017),noel157 (6th July 2017),pantealex (6th July 2017),Rally Power (9th July 2017)
  14. #1379
    Junior Member
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    Jan 2017
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    We got up on staurday, and it was sunny!!!!! best ever present!!!

    Ok we eat something and went to the stage, we get to where we planned to see the cars, but this was one of the least spectaculars from the rally, but if you put that zone in other rallys i've been it could be one of the most spectaculars, i don't know if i have explained good.

    Okei, we saw the wrc and some skodas during the way to the parking, and also when we were arriving to the car we heard and ambulance or something like that, we thought that something had happened and they cancelled the stage, but we were going to the other one (kruklanki), 1 day after we noticed, that it wasn't an ambulance, it was a fire truck, and that the stage wasn't cancelled, it was in running mode! crazy thing to believe.

    Ok, firts stage of staurday watched in the palce we planned and now time for a 60 km road to kruklanki. We arrived ther with more or less 1 hour befor the first wrc arrives. We went to spectator zone 56 and walk in the opposite direction of the cars, we arrived where we planned and it was two fast and sideways turns after a little straight jump, but the action was in the left hander, That was so crazy!! There we saw almost all the cars.

    Before see that stage we deceided that the afternoon stages won't be baranowo-kruklanki like in the morning, people from galicia the day before told us that from pozedrze to kruklanki ther was less time but also ther was much less distance. So after first pass for kruklanki, we decided to go to pozezdre spectator zone 21, we thought that we would have time to stop and buy something for lunch, but we saw the jam between the two spectators zones and decided not to stop, the access of pozedzre was so much filled of spectators, lots and lots of cars parked in a narrow road, we maged to park the car in front of a house 1 km more or less begore reach the stage.
    This was the first stage we went without knowing any places, so we improvized, arrived at the stage and we saw a heavy downhill at our left, we decided to walk ther and then we saw jumps abit more to the left, so we decided to spectate that from very far, but we could saw the main action!! The plan was clear, saw the wrcs and run run run to the car to not got stucked. And was like that, we got some cars before us but a lot of people was behind so, with fortune we didn't got very stucked, and there started our way to kruklanki zone 55.

    for being a stage that we didn't know anything we could see lot of actions in the jumps, so we were happy and hoping to see a good spot in kruklanki to complete the day!!!!

    We arrived at kruklanki 55 and parked the car in a parking 500 m to the stage, 40 minuts before the first wrc. So it was everything going weel to complete the day, we were at the sopt that mikkelsen give a huge cut 2 or three years ago, we climbed some (i don't know the name, the thing from the farmers , that organitzators us to make the chicanes), 40 people there, estonians, finns and locals, and us, everyone could see the stage with a super view, we saw the cars coming without jumping but taking an insane left hander and hearing them going flat out for some time, it was also a great place!!!! we saw some wrc2 and went to the car because it started to rain.

    So in day 2 we managed to see 3 stages were we planned and a stge improvizing the place but it was still very spectacular!!! so very good day!! No marshall problems in any stage!!

    We took the car and decided to go to mikolajki to the assistance, there were a very big jam, but this is wrc and we had finished our plan for staurday so there was no problem. we arrived at mikolajki to see the service, first time i see a service working, we saw tanak and neuvilles reapairs and also could talk very familiar to nil solans about how was going his rally, thank you very much to him to gave us some time!!!

    After service we went to have dinner at a place next to the day before, 4 dishes, dessert and coffes were 200 zpl this time, more expensive than the day before, but still very good prize.
    After that we went to recce the last part of paprotki, but the access was cut, so we parked and camped near the specattor zone access 72.

    Good 2nd day!!

    Got up and went to the special stage, rain again, we reach to the end of the stage to see the last jumps, but we didn't see so much properly, the jump we saw better was the less spectacular of the three, big disappointing to see tanak going crashed and slowly, after the stage we went to see tanak's car at the end of the stage, and 40 minutes more or less before the power stage we start walking to find another place, we stayed on a dunghill jajaj, but we saw very good place, small jump, pass straight of us and another jump , we watched wrc and run to the car to go to the airport to warsaw to catch the plane.

    So day 3 was more or less what we ecpected and we saw the palces we wanted but not so close to the road that we wanted, but is very comprensible in the end of the power stage!

    So we were a bit afraid about how rally will go for us before flying to poland, but it was super super good!!

    Say thanks to the galicia people that told me about making pozedrze- kruklanki, to the girl who catched my friend lost phone and returned to us at night, to mindaugas who let me use his tripod without knowing me, to the canary ones with ones we had laughs in the first pass of the paprotki stage, and big thanks to the organitzation to put WC in every stages, i use them a lot!!!

    So, new rally, and not so difficult to spectate, and also GOOD SHOW FROM THE SPECTATOR ZONE IN SAFETY PLACES!!!!!!

    9 stages, that would been 10 if chimelewo wasn't cancelled.

    Here I share our 2 minutes youtube video with the best pass of each stage!!

  15. Likes: abxyz (6th July 2017),br21 (6th July 2017),NickRally (6th July 2017),noel157 (6th July 2017),pantealex (6th July 2017)
  16. #1380
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2007
    Liked 640 Times in 220 Posts
    it's not easy to judge rally poland. as:
    - most spectators like it as it's one of most spectacular events (also because of poor safety standards), also relatively cheap to watch and with relatively easy access (cheap flights, not super long drive, etc)
    - most of the drivers like it, they love the roads, they of course complain about safety and this year about road conditions, but that was mostly due the weather
    - teams like the market and relative OK costs, don't like the organization
    - it's quite poorly organized (at least service park was improved in last few years)
    - safety standards are way below the acceptable level. honestly it's not easy to control all the fans (many of them drinking, and not only polish people drunk unfortunately), but things like with fireman truck should never happen
    - organizers tend to look to much into money, so spectator control is not their main objective, they focus more on tickets, car parks located far away, VIP zones, etc, etc,

    I work every year during many WRC, ERC and national events and it's never fully easy to judge event 100%. There are always pros and cons. If they want to stay in WRC obviously they need to improve safety standards/spectator control.

    Truth is that most of the people who complain and speak most loudly about very bad safety know the event only from the videos, most people who visited the event they like this poor safety standards even when they don't speak it loudly... they also most of the time try to stand as close to the action as possible, try to make good pictures or videos... so it's quite complicated subject... Of course I'm not saying it's good, but it's like it looks most of the time...

  17. Likes: Andre Oliveira (6th July 2017),arko5 (7th July 2017),aykutbilir (6th July 2017),Mirek (7th July 2017),pantealex (7th July 2017),ToKu (6th July 2017)

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