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  1. #1321
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    I am not even sure if you are serious or if I'm missing some kind of sarcasm..?
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  3. #1322
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    I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no no). IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

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  5. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    I disagree. This is the first rally in a long time where the images made me think, "Yes, it would be really enjoyable to be there." Not even in all areas. There were some parts where the spectators were obviously pushed way back past where they would like to be. But this sport needs to accept the fact that it is a spectator participation sport, and that is a huge part of the appeal.

    If they can come onto the stage to help stricken cars, they should be able to stand where they want. You need to trust people to take care of themselves, and accept the consequences.

    Or you can just be like the fucking awful F1 of the last few years that shelters everyone from everything and sucks all the joy out of life. Except it will be even worse than that, because we're not the pinnacle of motorsport, so we don't get the big bucks. It will be like WTCC qualifying on gravel. Is that what you all want? Because that's what you get when you keep crowing about safety.

    You know why people like Group B? Because it looked dangerous, and it kind of was. A couple of people died in the few years it was running. I think, if we're honest, we'd rather all have the memories of Group B than have those people back. We're all glad that Group B existed. Anyone who isn't, really isn't a rally fan.

    What have you been smoking?


    Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others....
    Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety.
    And the most stupid part of your post- "we'd rather all have the memories of Group B than have those people back"- don't know who you think "we" are but I'm pretty sure every member here, except you obviously, would rather Toivonen, Cresto and Bettega were now retired at home with their families after a successful career in rallying. Pretty sick, if you want Death Race 2000, rent a movie.
    You lad, are no rally fan with thoughts like that.
    Last edited by noel157; 5th July 2017 at 00:18.

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  7. #1324
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    Okay, you would literally prefer to have another rally driver growing old somewhere than have all the memories of Group B. Okay.

    Your same kind of person would rather have a bunch of no names around than have explored the New World, or have reached the moon, or have achieved anything in life. Any time that anything requires any kind of sacrifice, fuck that, right? Because we can do it a safer way, and if we can't, it's not worth doing. Right?

    That is a pathetic attitude. But worse than that, it's a hypocrite attitude, because we both know that you wouldn't give a shit about rally if you didn't have those memories of Group B, and if the drivers weren't completely insane heroes.

    You people all talk real pretty, but look deep inside yourselves for about ten minutes and ask yourselves what you truly love about rally, and then ask yourselves, "Is that actually SAFE?"

    And if you answer yes, then shut up, because you're goddamn liars.


    Now let's break down some of this bullshit:


    "I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no
    no)."

    Actually, that was mildly exciting to see on TV. Even though I couldn't see it on TV. I watched it on youtube like 5 times. It was a big fuck up. That's exciting. If you can't see that, I can show you a million people who can see it.

    "IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it."

    Hopefully English is not your first language, and you meant "should not" instead of "shall not". Don't worry, it's not my first language either. But I think I'm right in saying: The event should be part of WRC because the stages are super exciting, even if the organization is not able to handle it, because we are not a bunch of fucking little girls who will sue each other if we get a broken nail.


    "Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others...."

    OK, so you don't trust spectators to take care of themselves? You don't trust people to take care of themselves? They're too stupid to take care of themselves? They need someone smart like you, or Jean Todt, to take care of them because they're too stupid to make wise decisions? OK.

    I mean, what? OK Paddon and Mikkelsen killed two people in the last like 10 years of rallying, and one or two more killed their co drivers. What, does that mean we shouldn't have rally any more? I know what you're going to say. Because you're a hypocrite, you're going to say, "Of course we should have rally, but we should try our hardest to avoid this in the future" Guess what. Trying your hardest to avoid it in the future means not having any more rally. That is the hardest you can try, and I guarantee that will avoid this in the future. But you aren't willing to do that, are you, hypocrite?

    "Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety. "

    OK, here's me being too vocal about safety: We shouldn't allow any spectators. They shouldn't be allowed to touch the cars. They shouldn't be allowed to step onto the track in any way. They shouldn't be allowed to help out the drivers. It should be like F1. Actually it should be tougher than F1. Everyone should stay at home and the drivers should drive on roads closed to everyone. Even cameramen. In fact the drivers themselves shouldnt be exposed to danger, they should drive remote controlled cars through Richard Burns Rally and everyone should watch from home through WRC+.

    Is that not too vocal about safety? Goddamn people don't actually think about what they're saying. Take a fucking philosophy class or something. Learn to think. Do better than our FIA masters. Motorsport is INHERENTLY dangerous. There is no amount or version of motorsport that is as safe as not doing motorsport. Therefore any motorsport fan is a fan of some amount of danger. You people think you're right because you're nice. But nice isn't always right. Sometimes it's wrong, and harmful to what you actually love. Learn that.
    Last edited by sonnybobiche; 5th July 2017 at 09:29.

  8. #1325
    Senior Member Lundefaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Okay, you would literally prefer to have another rally driver growing old somewhere than have all the memories of Group B. Okay.

    Your same kind of person would rather have a bunch of no names around than have explored the New World, or have reached the moon, or have achieved anything in life. Any time that anything requires any kind of sacrifice, fuck that, right? Because we can do it a safer way, and if we can't, it's not worth doing. Right?

    That is a pathetic attitude. But worse than that, it's a hypocrite attitude, because we both know that you wouldn't give a shit about rally if you didn't have those memories of Group B, and if the drivers weren't completely insane heroes.

    You people all talk real pretty, but look deep inside yourselves for about ten minutes and ask yourselves what you truly love about rally, and then ask yourselves, "Is that actually SAFE?"

    And if you answer yes, then shut up, because you're goddamn liars.


    Now let's break down some of this bullshit:


    "I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no
    no)."

    Actually, that was mildly exciting to see on TV. Even though I couldn't see it on TV. I watched it on youtube like 5 times. It was a big fuck up. That's exciting. If you can't see that, I can show you a million people who can see it.

    "IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it."

    Hopefully English is not your first language, and you meant "should not" instead of "shall not". Don't worry, it's not my first language either. But I think I'm right in saying: The event should be part of WRC because the stages are super exciting, even if the organization is not able to handle it, because we are not a bunch of fucking little girls who will sue each other if we get a broken nail.


    "Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others...."

    OK, so you don't trust spectators to take care of themselves? You don't trust people to take care of themselves? They're too stupid to take care of themselves? They need someone smart like you, or Jean Todt, to take care of them because they're too stupid to make wise decisions? OK.

    I mean, what? OK Paddon and Mikkelsen killed two people in the last like 10 years of rallying, and one or two more killed their co drivers. What, does that mean we shouldn't have rally any more? I know what you're going to say. Because you're a hypocrite, you're going to say, "Of course we should have rally, but we should try our hardest to avoid this in the future" Guess what. Trying your hardest to avoid it in the future means not having any more rally. That is the hardest you can try, and I guarantee that will avoid this in the future. But you aren't willing to do that, are you, hypocrite?

    "Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety. "

    OK, here's me being too vocal about safety: We shouldn't allow any spectators. They shouldn't be allowed to touch the cars. They shouldn't be allowed to step onto the track in any way. They shouldn't be allowed to help out the drivers. It should be like F1. Actually it should be tougher than F1. Everyone should stay at home and the drivers should drive on roads closed to everyone. Even cameramen. In fact the drivers themselves shouldnt be exposed to danger, they should drive remote controlled cars through Richard Burns Rally and everyone should watch from home through WRC+.

    Is that not too vocal about safety? Goddamn people don't actually think about what they're saying. Take a fucking philosophy class or something. Learn to think. Do better than our FIA masters. Motorsport is INHERENTLY dangerous. There is no amount or version of motorsport that is as safe as not doing motorsport. Therefore any motorsport fan is a fan of some amount of danger. You people think you're right because you're nice. But nice isn't always right. Sometimes it's wrong, and harmful to what you actually love. Learn that.
    Group B wrote great stories of legends past, and as you say, a lot of it had to do with the danger and accidents. It wouldnt have been the legend it is today with out them.

    But the consequences of the accidents in Group B could have easily been avoided. There was no need for the cars to catch fire after crashing. There was no need for absolutely no crowd control.

    Group B was spectacular, but it was not sustainable, and the consequence was that it was banned after only two "real" years.

    WRC 2017 is a big step in the right direction for rallying, and the stuff of legends, but lets keep it sustainable by avoiding unnessesary risk. Either for competitor or for spectators.

    This year, especially thanks to "Test Pilot" Kris Meeke, we can see that the cars are safe enough for their crew.
    But with out taking away to much from the fan experience, we must see to it that the spectators are not put at an unacceptable level of risk.

    From my point of view, Rally Poland is above what is acceptable for the spectators. Poor crowd control combined with stages in open fields with no natural barriers (like the trees of Finland or the snow and trees in Sweden) are a big challenge.

    On top of that there are too many safety glitches. (If you think sending fire trucks in to a live stage, on top of that in the wron direction, is a good way to get some excitement in to the sport, I can say that we have a great difference of opinion)
    If those safety glitches, and the poor crowd controll is kept going, a big accident with bad consequenses is going to happen, and the sport will suffer. Like it did in the Group B days.
    https://www.facebook.com/noseendfirst?ref=hl#

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  10. #1326
    M-Sport 2x Champions 2017 Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Rally Poland may be on the verge of being axed as a round of the WRC amid safety concerns at last week's event.. https://t.co/L3ididto75 https://t.co/GnCD2Ic7o8

  11. #1327
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
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    Look! Rally Poland makes people happy!
    https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/v...5548749784973/
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

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  13. #1328
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    Anyone watch Paddons facebook live Q and A session? He made some interesting comments about how it looks fast from the outside but inside he said it actually feels a little sedate in Poland due to the relatively sticky surface. He said Finland feels faster due to the gravel surface being different. He also said the difference between last years cars and now is the corner speed not absolute speed due to the changes in down-force. I thought his most interesting comment was about being more comfortable on a high speed 6th gear corner than a slow 2nd gear corner due to the braking point.

    Well worth a watch as he was making some interesting comments.
    Last edited by Grundo Farb; 5th July 2017 at 11:00.

  14. #1329
    M-Sport 2x Champions 2017 Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lundefaret View Post
    Group B wrote great stories of legends past, and as you say, a lot of it had to do with the danger and accidents. It wouldnt have been the legend it is today with out them.

    But the consequences of the accidents in Group B could have easily been avoided. There was no need for the cars to catch fire after crashing. There was no need for absolutely no crowd control.

    Group B was spectacular, but it was not sustainable, and the consequence was that it was banned after only two "real" years.

    WRC 2017 is a big step in the right direction for rallying, and the stuff of legends, but lets keep it sustainable by avoiding unnessesary risk. Either for competitor or for spectators.

    This year, especially thanks to "Test Pilot" Kris Meeke, we can see that the cars are safe enough for their crew.
    But with out taking away to much from the fan experience, we must see to it that the spectators are not put at an unacceptable level of risk.

    From my point of view, Rally Poland is above what is acceptable for the spectators. Poor crowd control combined with stages in open fields with no natural barriers (like the trees of Finland or the snow and trees in Sweden) are a big challenge.

    On top of that there are too many safety glitches. (If you think sending fire trucks in to a live stage, on top of that in the wron direction, is a good way to get some excitement in to the sport, I can say that we have a great difference of opinion)
    If those safety glitches, and the poor crowd controll is kept going, a big accident with bad consequenses is going to happen, and the sport will suffer. Like it did in the Group B days.
    This is spot on.

    As someone who was there, the excitement of Group B was all about the amazing CARS and the brilliant DRIVER'S.

    It had nothing to do with danger or crazy idiots standing by the roads.

    Safe crowds and cars that protected the driver's would have let it continue.

  15. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Okay, you would literally prefer to have another rally driver growing old somewhere than have all the memories of Group B. Okay.

    Your same kind of person would rather have a bunch of no names around than have explored the New World, or have reached the moon, or have achieved anything in life. Any time that anything requires any kind of sacrifice, fuck that, right? Because we can do it a safer way, and if we can't, it's not worth doing. Right?

    That is a pathetic attitude. But worse than that, it's a hypocrite attitude, because we both know that you wouldn't give a shit about rally if you didn't have those memories of Group B, and if the drivers weren't completely insane heroes.

    You people all talk real pretty, but look deep inside yourselves for about ten minutes and ask yourselves what you truly love about rally, and then ask yourselves, "Is that actually SAFE?"

    And if you answer yes, then shut up, because you're goddamn liars.


    Now let's break down some of this bullshit:


    "I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no
    no)."

    Actually, that was mildly exciting to see on TV. Even though I couldn't see it on TV. I watched it on youtube like 5 times. It was a big fuck up. That's exciting. If you can't see that, I can show you a million people who can see it.

    "IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it."

    Hopefully English is not your first language, and you meant "should not" instead of "shall not". Don't worry, it's not my first language either. But I think I'm right in saying: The event should be part of WRC because the stages are super exciting, even if the organization is not able to handle it, because we are not a bunch of fucking little girls who will sue each other if we get a broken nail.


    "Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others...."

    OK, so you don't trust spectators to take care of themselves? You don't trust people to take care of themselves? They're too stupid to take care of themselves? They need someone smart like you, or Jean Todt, to take care of them because they're too stupid to make wise decisions? OK.

    I mean, what? OK Paddon and Mikkelsen killed two people in the last like 10 years of rallying, and one or two more killed their co drivers. What, does that mean we shouldn't have rally any more? I know what you're going to say. Because you're a hypocrite, you're going to say, "Of course we should have rally, but we should try our hardest to avoid this in the future" Guess what. Trying your hardest to avoid it in the future means not having any more rally. That is the hardest you can try, and I guarantee that will avoid this in the future. But you aren't willing to do that, are you, hypocrite?

    "Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety. "

    OK, here's me being too vocal about safety: We shouldn't allow any spectators. They shouldn't be allowed to touch the cars. They shouldn't be allowed to step onto the track in any way. They shouldn't be allowed to help out the drivers. It should be like F1. Actually it should be tougher than F1. Everyone should stay at home and the drivers should drive on roads closed to everyone. Even cameramen. In fact the drivers themselves shouldnt be exposed to danger, they should drive remote controlled cars through Richard Burns Rally and everyone should watch from home through WRC+.

    Is that not too vocal about safety? Goddamn people don't actually think about what they're saying. Take a fucking philosophy class or something. Learn to think. Do better than our FIA masters. Motorsport is INHERENTLY dangerous. There is no amount or version of motorsport that is as safe as not doing motorsport. Therefore any motorsport fan is a fan of some amount of danger. You people think you're right because you're nice. But nice isn't always right. Sometimes it's wrong, and harmful to what you actually love. Learn that.
    Not even NOT can spew out such shit like this.

    If you don't care about spectator safety you are not a rally fan, because thanks to spectators who couldn't take care of themselves your beloved Group B was banned. If people don't take the same precautions now then we won't have rally at all. That's not what you want, unless, that is, you don't really like rally.

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