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  1. #21
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Don't know whether to laugh or cry.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  2. Likes: dimviii (28th February 2017),pantealex (28th February 2017)
  3. #22
    Senior Member Gregor-y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Yes, for electric cars it is for pedestrian safety but frankly I find it quite ridiculous (even though somewhat necessary). In the future You may download Your vehicle sound just like a ringtone. Imagine a Toyota Prius with Ferrari sound or maye ZIL truck instead
    Why stop with engine noises?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz-KwtKRBUY

    I'd like to see more performance with straight electrics. With a motor on each wheel the power distribution could be very precise. The hard part is still batteries and charging, which really should be getting solved after forty years. Competition is a good stage for development and display.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctesibios View Post
    , but will also create a whole new set of problems for us to deal with in the future.

    Yeah like dealing with a toxic waste site any time a car rolls and hits anything, maybe dealing with driver and co-driver suffering from flesh-eating acid burns, ruined lungs from vapours after crash, eyes melted away, mechanics being acid burned...

    I wonder if any of the usually over-the-top-fan-bois of electric vehicles have ever seen cars in wrecking yards of badly crashed--wait? WELL crashed rally cars?
    John Vanlandingham
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  5. #24
    Senior Member Gregor-y's Avatar
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    Of course not. In the US they're just re-built and run again until they literally fall to pieces.

  6. #25
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanvurpa View Post
    Yeah like dealing with a toxic waste site any time a car rolls and hits anything, maybe dealing with driver and co-driver suffering from flesh-eating acid burns, ruined lungs from vapours after crash, eyes melted away, mechanics being acid burned...

    I wonder if any of the usually over-the-top-fan-bois of electric vehicles have ever seen cars in wrecking yards of badly crashed--wait? WELL crashed rally cars?
    Corect me if I'm wrong but most of the batteries used in hybrids or electric cars are lithium based and have no acid in them. The safety issue with them is high flamability when pierced but IMO that's not very different from gasoline fuel tanks.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Corect me if I'm wrong but most of the batteries used in hybrids or electric cars are lithium based and have no acid in them. The safety issue with them is high flamability when pierced but IMO that's not very different from gasoline fuel tanks.
    Except Lithium ion batteries, unlike gasoline, are self-oxidizing, i.e. once they ignite there's no extinguishing them until they burn themselves out.

    Not to mention they're extremely expensive, very heavy, quite dirty to manufacture, and basically nobody would have any interest in this technology if it wasn't for the government shoving it down our throats, either through regulation or massive subsidies.

    That's just talking about hybrids. Electric cars are even worse, but for some reason nobody likes to say it. The range problem is virtually unsolvable, since there is no way for a battery to have the energy density of gasoline. It is literally physically impossible. It will never happen, because the laws of physics do not allow it. I don't know how else to say it.

    Moreover the fact that a petrol-powered engine keeps chugging along nicely for decades, while a battery pack is basically ruined after a few years, raises questions about how financially viable this technology is.

    And then there's the issue of where the electricity is coming from. In the United States, the majority of electricity is generated by coal-burning power plants. I cannot imagine a more inefficient, environmentally unfriendly mode of transportation than fully electric cars. Naturally, this is what the government thinks is the future. Because they're such clever people.

  8. #27
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Nothing is black and white. Fact is that especially diesel cars are killing for cities, petrol cars are better but for cities the electricity definitely is better than fosile fuels.

    The production of electricity is getting less and less coal dependant, at least in Europe, here in CZ it's roughly 40% of electricity, in Austria which is our neighbour it's only roughly 25% and the percentage is changing every year with coal share decreasing. I'm not going to discuss if coal burnt in a power plant with anti-sulphur filtering etc. is worse than the same energy produced by cars. I don't have any relevant data in my hand and I'm not going to throw some bullshit around. For sure it's better not to send the exhalation directly in the streets (cold diesel engines in morning the traffic jams is something).

    Battery production is for sure a problem and not ecological at all but the battery technologies are developing rather quickly so in a decade or two we might speak different way.

    It's quite pointless to bring the point about petrol engines being around for decades while batteries die way quicker. Modern cars are not anymore built for being used for decades. No matter if they are gasoline or diesel or whatever. The cars are now just a common goods and their durability is corresponding (at least in Europe). It's not only the durability but also for example the multimedia stuff onboard which is getting old pretty quickly and sadly that's one of the things which sell cars nowadays. As a result there is definitely a huge overproduction of cars and in the end even overproduction of gasoline cars which are going to be changed every five years has nothing to do with ecology.

    Anyway there is for sure no electric solution for large-distance travel for near future mainly due to the long time necessary for recharging/low capacity of regarging stations even theoretically possible to be built around the main motorways. On the other hand as a person living in a big city I definitely welcome electrification of city trafic.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  9. Likes: dimviii (28th February 2017),janvanvurpa (28th February 2017),sonnybobiche (1st March 2017)
  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Except Lithium ion batteries, unlike gasoline, are self-oxidizing, i.e. once they ignite there's no extinguishing them until they burn themselves out.

    Not to mention they're extremely expensive, very heavy, quite dirty to manufacture, and basically nobody would have any interest in this technology if it wasn't for the government shoving it down our throats, either through regulation or massive subsidies.

    That's just talking about hybrids. Electric cars are even worse, but for some reason nobody likes to say it. The range problem is virtually unsolvable, since there is no way for a battery to have the energy density of gasoline. It is literally physically impossible. It will never happen, because the laws of physics do not allow it. I don't know how else to say it.

    Moreover the fact that a petrol-powered engine keeps chugging along nicely for decades, while a battery pack is basically ruined after a few years, raises questions about how financially viable this technology is.

    And then there's the issue of where the electricity is coming from. In the United States, the majority of electricity is generated by coal-burning power plants. I cannot imagine a more inefficient, environmentally unfriendly mode of transportation than fully electric cars. Naturally, this is what the government thinks is the future. Because they're such clever people.
    Well sonnybeach, in defense of Merikuh--since I am half-merikun, when I have pointed out to the fans of Eel-lectric cars raving about "ZERO pollution" the nasty fact that the electricity they're filling their cars up with comes with high probablity from coal they very cleverly point out that we can't see the coal plant so everything is fine...

    I didn't think of that.


    Remember dear comrades here, the only things that really matters in America is appearances..
    If you don't see a coal-fired power plant,
    then how could it be a problem..?
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  11. Likes: sonnybobiche (1st March 2017)
  12. #29
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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can rant all they want about EVs and hybrids. That being said, what are your thoughts on what will the next generation of WRC cars be like?

  13. #30
    Senior Member stefanvv's Avatar
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    For now I see only the downside and ecological negatives towards electrical energy pointed out. On the flip side there has been much worse (I think) ecological disasters with much more direct impact on nature with the petrol industry. Everything has its pros and cons,

    On the other hand the electrical energy is recoverable in some proportion by the kinetic energy, unlike petrol. Thought about that?
    "With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

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