Technical Analysis: WRC Cars 2017

[tommeke_B]

The dampers being used in works WRC cars aren't exactly "customer racing". Who knows they can have some technology we' may see in "customer racing" only next decade. If Citroën decides to not work with Reiger, I think it's more likely they do it because no opponent (like M-Sport) would benefit from the knowledge Reiger may gather from Citroën... Hyundai has also changed supplier, they used Reiger with the first i20 WRC, now they use EXT. As a works-team, not being able to afford it sounds rubbish to me.

[AMSS]

The dampers being used in works WRC cars aren't exactly "customer racing". Who knows they can have some technology we' may see in "customer racing" only next decade. If Citroën decides to not work with Reiger, I think it's more likely they do it because no opponent (like M-Sport) would benefit from the knowledge Reiger may gather from Citroën... Hyundai has also changed supplier, they used Reiger with the first i20 WRC, now they use EXT. As a works-team, not being able to afford it sounds rubbish to me.

This is what I meant, if they are more expensive in customer racing than they are probably not cheaper with works teams..
Also it`s not that big a jump between customer racing shocks and works shocks, mostly bigger weight reductions in works dampers but since they are limited by rules in what materials they can use it`s really not that big a difference. Different yes, massive difference no. And yes I`ve seen the inside of 3 manufactorers WRC dampers from previous generation cars. This years cars I haven`t seen but I doubt they invented something revolutionary that`s only available in the next decade to "normal" people..

[Lundefaret]

I thought Øhlins were very good dampers, but have they fallen behind in Rally?

I dont know about Öhlins factor in the Citroën problems, but will comment in general:

Öhlins and Öhlins are not the same thing.
A damper is as good as the effort that is put in it, and that is very budget driven.

I think Öhlins was last used in WRC in the Prodrive MINI, and that was after a sucsessfull change from BOS to Öhlins on the S14 that Grönholm competed with.
Both those dampers was competitive, though Prodrive under estimated the need for damper travel on the MINI - but that was not Öhlins.

Citröen has had a history making their own dampers (after the ex-tc I think?), but it has been a wish from several that they get outside assistanse.
But though the dampers seem to have some protection problems (bump stop and last high speed movement before bumpstop) its still difficult for me to understand how they could have ended up in this situation. I think there must be more to this story.

[Lundefaret]

This is what I meant, if they are more expensive in customer racing than they are probably not cheaper with works teams..
Also it`s not that big a jump between customer racing shocks and works shocks, mostly bigger weight reductions in works dampers but since they are limited by rules in what materials they can use it`s really not that big a difference. Different yes, massive difference no. And yes I`ve seen the inside of 3 manufactorers WRC dampers from previous generation cars. This years cars I haven`t seen but I doubt they invented something revolutionary that`s only available in the next decade to "normal" people..

In a factory damper you can build a more specific damper, more tailor made, thats the biggest difference. You can chose some different tech, and you have specific damper engineers working on it.

For me its strange if not one of the teams "take over" ZF Sachs, but dont know if its possible?

[AMSS]

In a factory damper you can build a more specific damper, more tailor made, thats the biggest difference. You can chose some different tech, and you have specific damper engineers working on it.

For me its strange if not one of the teams "take over" ZF Sachs, but dont know if its possible?

This was exactly what I meant /more tailor made/
Actually Skoda now uses ZF Sachs so they are still in the VAG group, and VW WRX cars use Sachs.

[Rally Power]

This talk about the C3 dampers is like Iraqis mass destruction weapons: a myth.

Last year Citroen did a remarkable job managing to get the DS competitive again. Their in-house developed dampers were able to perform outstandingly at the most demanding WRC terrains, but now everybody seems to believe that, somehow, they’re not able to produce good dampers any more…seriously?

IF something is wrong with the car shouldn’t we be looking at the new active differential and the set up issues brought by it, which also arouse problems to other manus?

[dimviii]

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9647211?origin=rss

This Finnish article suggests that the problem of Citroen this season are Öhlins dampers, which were selected because they couldn't afford better ones

I don't think that he has a clue about.

[Mirek]

Actually Skoda now uses ZF Sachs so they are still in the VAG group.

AFAIK they didn't want to give up working with Reiger but they had to.

[AMSS]

AFAIK they didn't want to give up working with Reiger but they had to.

Yes so I heard as well

[Sulland]

Mikkelsen comes with Sachs/VW experience.
So if it something with the suspesion/dampers, he will/has give(n) info.

Øhlins will find issues if there are any, of they put their mind 100% into the task.
Citroen will have a ton of data from DS3 and from C3 to model and find challenging areas.