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  1. #141
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    We have a month of speculation ahead but let me to start a technical discussion (not a statistic and history analysis)...

    Monte and Sweden are classified as special rallys with no real performance indication.

    If monte conidions are 2017 like reason is simple; there is never enough grip under tires so car can't perform at its "working ability".

    In Sweden it is not so obvious to me. Special snow tires gives grip that can be compared with the one on gravel. Gravel roads under the snow are diverse, from fast and flowing to narrow, "cresty", camber changing and even rough. If there are big snowbanks driving style can be different, otherwise driving is quite similar to gravel. In the past when tires were super narrow and rims were bigger, tire dynamic may be different, but with 15" rims I can imagine that tires perform similar to gravel ones. So I can't find a obvious reason why fast snow car would not be a also a fast gravel car. (again not talking about drivers, used to snow or not and snowbanks leaning driving)

    Let me hear your opinion...

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRally View Post
    Here is my first attempt at creating an aero analysis of the 2017 WRC cars. There is always a risk of making oneself look like a fool when doing this, but I’ll give it a go . I will start with the Fiesta and will expand with all the other cars as and when I have the time, but I can already see some very interesting features on the Yaris. I am also no expert on the regulations and although I have downloaded them, the nature in which they are presented is very different to the world of ground up designed racing cars where I come from, which makes the WRC tech regs a real challenge for me to follow.

    1. Ford Fiesta

    Attachment 1235

    The diffuser on the Fiesta appears to be the shallowest (1) of them all, this is not necessarily a disadvantage in terms of aero, but it is quite modest in comparison to the rest of the field. The transition area into the diffuser (2) is quite narrow as dictated by the suspension arm protectors (3), which in turn, at their trailing edge, do not form a continuous transition into the diffuser, though they probably provide a nice skirted area around the central floor into the diffuser transition, which would help with accelerating the air flow and reducing the air pressure further there. Nevertheless, integrating the trailing edges nicely into the diffuser surface (notwithstanding the technical challenges involved in this) may deliver an added benefit (something that appears to be done on the Yaris on some of the images). The diffuser streaks appear to extend below the surface of the flat floor in front of the diffuser, but I suspect this is optical illusion and like in many other forms of mototsport they are not allowed to do so, but once again a proper read of the tech regs should provide an answer to this question.
    Moving towards the front of the car, there appears to be a non-flat area, which I don’t know if it is because of the tech regs/homologation or it is done for creating an aero benefit. The image is not clear enough for me to see what happens there, but I can see similar features on the Yaris, though on some of the images of the Toyota from testing, I can also clearly see additional diffusers in front of the rear wheels, though more on this later.

    Regards,
    Nick
    Pse keep em coming

  3. #143
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldF View Post
    I post this here also, easier to find than in the Sweden thread.

    Latvala presents the Yaris’s aero. Nothing special what he says else that they have to have downforce also in the front because of big rear wing. In the end good view of the diffuser. They are not using the openings at front of the rear wheels in Sweden.

    http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9453531
    Thanks OldF, but I can't view it, restriction on being viewed from outside Finland.
    Regards,
    Nick

  4. #144
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Couple of other thoughts after my first post on aero:

    1. Double diffuser on the Ford – it was mentioned on this forum and also such thought crossed my mind when I first saw the Fiesta small diffuser at the launch. I thought there was no way that was all the diffuser they have designed in and it also appeared like the original road car “diffuser” on top is used as an additional extraction device, though it wasn’t clear where on the underfloor this particular air would have been taken from, even though there are plenty of openings on the underside as it would appear. Nevertheless looking at images a bit later on, I couldn’t see an air passage between the dedicated WRC diffuser and the road car one so I discarded that thought, but once again none of the images I have seen so far is clear enough to say for certain what’s what and I haven’t seen one in person. Maybe people that have seen the real car with their own eyes can comment?

    2. The technical analysis thread itself – there are a lot of sub-threads in it and it feels very fragmented and inconsistent, jumping from one subject to another. I understand why this is, as until recently rally car technical analysis wasn’t a massive subject with little year on year car development (relative to other forms of motorsport) so a single technical thread was enough. But now with the new cars there is a lot that can be said, so there may be justification to split the technical analysis thread into individual threads dealing with engine, mechanical chassis, aero chassis, on stage performance and so on. On the other hand I can of course see an argument for the opposite with technical threads appearing on all sorts of subject and ending up with many, clogging the forum. So not sure what the best compromise is, just pondering ideas. If people are happy to keep just the single thread in existence, I am sure I would be able to “deal” with it .

    Regards,
    Nick

  5. Likes: drive (15th February 2017)
  6. #145
    Senior Member OldF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRally View Post
    Thanks OldF, but I can't view it, restriction on being viewed from outside Finland.
    Regards,
    Nick
    I was afraid that could be the case. I made few “print screens” of the diffuser from the video. Hope it helps.





    “Don’t eat the yellow snow” Frank Zappa

  7. Likes: drive (15th February 2017),J_n_z (13th February 2017)
  8. #146
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    Compare 1:31 and 2:46
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ&app=desktop

    put it in slow motion to see better and look front wheels.

    Is it suspension settings or downforce? I have felling that sunday was actually first time Latvala was pushing 100 %, before that he was driving at "sensible 98 %" avoiding stupidities.

  9. Likes: A FONDO (13th February 2017)
  10. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_n_z View Post
    Compare 1:31 and 2:46
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ&app=desktop

    put it in slow motion to see better and look front wheels.

    Is it suspension settings or downforce?.
    I d like to see a video from this point from previous years,(if the stage run at 2016)

  11. #148
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_n_z View Post
    Compare 1:31 and 2:46
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ&app=desktop

    put it in slow motion to see better and look front wheels.

    Is it suspension settings or downforce? I have felling that sunday was actually first time Latvala was pushing 100 %, before that he was driving at "sensible 98 %" avoiding stupidities.
    I tend to agree with J_n_z on both points.
    The Fiesta and the Yaris differ in the way they negotiate this piece of road and I won't be surprised at all if it is due to the downforce levels difference between the two cars rather than the suspension settings, especially at these speeds.
    And second, it certainly feels like Latvala finally showed what they can do together with the car on the final day.

  12. #149
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Here is the next instalment of my aero analysis, this time it is Yaris’ turn.

    2. Toyota Yaris

    I will first upload the images, which in many instances are self-explanatory and will follow with the comments later, once again as and when I find the time.

    Regards,
    Nick

    Yaris Aero 1.JPG

    Yaris Aero 2.JPG

    Yaris Aero 3.JPG

    Yaris Aero 4 - fiesta and c3.JPG

    Yaris Aero 5.JPG

  13. Likes: 6789 (16th February 2017),drive (15th February 2017),OldF (26th February 2017),skarderud (16th February 2017)
  14. #150
    Senior Member jparker's Avatar
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    Quick question. Is it optical illusion, or the pedals have gone upwards, almost lining up with the driver's seat? Is this regulated, or is just driver's preference?

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