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  1. #391
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Does the tech level of the 2017 generation car mean that privat teams are history?

    - general high tech level, little training for the privat engineers, hard to understand without background info
    - more software, where the privateers are not allowed latest version
    - suspension and dampers where you will not get latest update, or get to know news/ discoveries from manufacturer
    - less testing opportunities if the privateers can afford it
    - probably more issues giving the privateer drivers no real chance to compete on level ground, so no more may the best man win!

    So this generation cars is the final nail in the coffin for privateers at top level in rally?

    Too bad really, and mean that FIA has finally potty trained the bohemian of motorsport.

    RallyCross is still a place you can build a winning car in your garage - but for how long.......
    www.Rallye-info.com

  2. #392
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    So this generation cars is the final nail in the coffin for privateers at top level in rally?
    Basically FIA already decides who is good enough to drive a WRC2017 car and only factory teams can enter WRC2017 cars. Østberg has been entered by M-Sport in all events.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    Does the tech level of the 2017 generation car mean that privat teams are history?

    - general high tech level, little training for the privat engineers, hard to understand without background info
    - more software, where the privateers are not allowed latest version
    - suspension and dampers where you will not get latest update, or get to know news/ discoveries from manufacturer
    - less testing opportunities if the privateers can afford it
    - probably more issues giving the privateer drivers no real chance to compete on level ground, so no more may the best man win!

    So this generation cars is the final nail in the coffin for privateers at top level in rally?

    Too bad really, and mean that FIA has finally potty trained the bohemian of motorsport.

    RallyCross is still a place you can build a winning car in your garage - but for how long.......

    No no no tjurskalle! You misunderstand everything.
    It means whoever wins is THE BEST DRIVER.

    I still don't understand why some people have to confuse things by introducing facts and reasoning to the discussion...

    Stygging!
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  4. Likes: Sulland (15th July 2017)
  5. #394
    Senior Member KKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    Basically FIA already decides who is good enough to drive a WRC2017 car and only factory teams can enter WRC2017 cars. Østberg has been entered by M-Sport in all events.
    only for 2017 year

  6. #395
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKS View Post
    only for 2017 year
    Next year it's gonna be normal again? I didn't know...

  7. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulland View Post
    Does the tech level of the 2017 generation car mean that privat teams are history?
    When was the last time a "real" private team was very competitive?

    Maybe Solberg with C4.. but was it all that private? Also it was at the end of C4 development, so there was not so much new coming for factory cars. Even less sure about his DS3 time. Most of M-Sports cars are always half-factory, depending on how much people pay.

    The point about C4 development applies also now, with new cars the factor teams are introducing rather big changes as often as possible now. When the current generation is more mature and/or nearing a bigger rule change it's more likely that "privateer" cars are more similar. But yes at the start of the year Østberg's car was prbly same as others, but then the differences started to increase.

  8. Likes: AnttiL (15th July 2017)
  9. #397
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    It's all about money. If you have enough you can have best people, almost best/latest parts from factory and some own developed stuff (i.e. dampers), a lot of tests, etc. But the level of money needed for 2017 car is so high that it's hard to afford.
    Currently in Rallycross on World Champs level it's impossible to compete with car build in garage. Level of top cars is super high.

  10. #398
    Member Revman's Avatar
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    NEWBIE ALERT!!!! Are the vents in the hood/front quarter panels for brake cooling? I would assume that the turbo intake would be through the "grill?"

    Additional question about braking.....Brembo talks on their website about their levels of support for teams. They refer to Toyota as only using some components. What can you tell me about these various levels of support? Do teams draw from other suppliers for some components? Propriety stuff? How does all of this work?
    Last edited by Revman; 19th July 2017 at 17:00.

  11. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revman View Post
    NEWBIE ALERT!!!! Are the vents in the hood/front quarter panels for brake cooling? I would assume that the turbo intake would be through the "grill?"

    Additional question about braking.....Brembo talks on their website about their levels of support for teams. They refer to Toyota as only using some components. What can you tell me about these various levels of support? Do teams draw from other suppliers for some components? Propriety stuff? How does all of this work?
    Brake cooling air is mostly taken from the front bumper for the front brakes.
    The vents that you see in the hood are there to evacuate air that has passed through the various coolers in the front of the car. Air going in the front bumper then passes through the Radiator(s), Intercooler(s), Gearbox Oil Cooler(s), Power Steering Cooler(s), etc. then out through the vents in the hood. The turbo intake is also usually through the front bumper.

    Air management through the front of the car is something that takes a lot of clever thinking and hours and hours of testing and design revisions. The air hitting the front of the car is both a blessing and a curse. It can cool, create downforce, cause drag and create lift all at the same time. How you manage it is the key. The are myriads of little splitters, ducts, guidevanes, block-off plates etc. all doing their part to help manage the air flow to get the desired benefit.
    Last edited by OHL; 19th July 2017 at 17:56.

  12. Likes: drive (20th July 2017),Mirek (19th July 2017),NickRally (19th July 2017),pantealex (20th July 2017),sonnybobiche (3rd September 2017),TWRC (21st July 2017)
  13. #400
    Member Revman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHL View Post
    Brake cooling air is mostly taken from the front bumper for the front brakes.
    The vents that you see in the hood are there to evacuate air that has passed through the various coolers in the front of the car. Air going in the front bumper then passes through the Radiator(s), Intercooler(s), Gearbox Oil Cooler(s), Power Steering Cooler(s), etc. then out through the vents in the hood. The turbo intake is also usually through the front bumper.

    Air management through the front of the car is something that takes a lot of clever thinking and hours and hours of testing and design revisions. The air hitting the front of the car is both a blessing and a curse. It can cool, create downforce, cause drag and create lift all at the same time. How you manage it is the key. The are myriads of little splitters, ducts, guidevanes, block-off plates etc. all doing their part to help manage the air flow to get the desired benefit.
    Thank you very much.

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