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26th June 2017, 23:25 #331
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"With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI
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26th June 2017, 23:30 #332
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The only thing that would give you the optimum grip for each wheel in all conditions (short of using one electrical motor per wheel) is a transmission consisting of one clutch pack per wheel with continuously variable engagement, but as we established earlier in the thread, we do not believe such systems are reliable enough, and at the same time they are illegal in WRC.
Last edited by NickRally; 26th June 2017 at 23:32.
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26th June 2017, 23:46 #333
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That's probably the best way to go, and where the hybrids will come along.
"With that car, your brain can actually never keep up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI
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27th June 2017, 00:26 #334
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Very interesting. So your theory explains what some of us expected. Citroen has designed torque split thats bias towards tarmac, and hoped it they could 'make' it work on gravel via hydraulics, leaving it unpredicable?
Also on the pictures is the negitive chamber on full droop what you would expect?
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27th June 2017, 01:45 #335
I only have experience of such systems in road cars rather than competition, but that sounds quite similar to the Subaru DCCD system first used in the Type-RA homologation Imprezas in the 90s.
They had 36F:64R mechanical torque split, with variable locking centre diff (capable of full lockup but only recommended for gravel/snow etc as it would put a lot of strain on the drivetrain on tarmac). In the road cars its driver controlled with a small dial so you tend to set it and leave it rather than adjusting mid corner, but electronic controllers were used for competition (and later introduced to the road cars too).
The ones I've driven were far more neutral, balanced and understeer-resistant than normal 50:50 viscous LSD Subarus, but also snappier when they let go and I know they caught out a few people who expected idiot-proof predictability. IIRC they also had a fairly agressive rear LSD which may have contributed to that as well. Heaps of fun anyway.
I disagree about locked centre diffs being unpredictable on gravel though, at least in my (enthusiastic but non-competition) experience - yes the torque split is effectively determined by traction available, but being locked the front and rear axles rotate at the same speed so you won't get either axle overspeeding relative to the other. One of my vehicles has both open centre diff and locked centre diff 4wd modes, and on rough inconsistent gravel it behaves much more predictably when locked. Does require a more agressive corner entry to avoid understeer though I guess.Last edited by GravelBen; 27th June 2017 at 01:48.
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27th June 2017, 07:37 #336
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27th June 2017, 08:47 #337
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Wrc2017 – wheel cambers: yes, the positive cambers in full droop are inevitable consequence of the type of suspension used, but there are some differences between the teams, which I would like to analyse in pictures when I get the time.
GravelBen – thanks for the additional notes. I should also clarify that what I meant is the car might feel inconsistent when switching from open diff with massive rear torque bias to locked diff, rather than a constantly locked centre diff being inconsistent, which is what we had last year. With centre spool (locked diff), the rest of the car would be setup to deal with it and also the driver would adapt to such arrangement.
traxx – mud flaps or mud guards (depending on your preference), which Citroen have been using in gravel rallies. Not only this, but while Toyota and Hyundai have a diffuser ahead of the rear wheels, Citroen used to have another mud guard there acting like a negative gurney, sort of lift creator rather than downforce.
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27th June 2017, 08:51 #338
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27th June 2017, 17:08 #339
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Mud flaps in accordance with FIA Appendix J - Article 252 - 7.7 (http://www.fia.com/file/51626/downlo...token=bM0OZdyu) are required on gravel rallies. They aren't aerodynamic appendages added at the discretion of the vehicle builders.
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27th June 2017, 18:19 #340
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