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  1. #101
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    I can't help thinking that If Hamilton had put even half the amount of effort and focus into 2016 (particularly the start) as Rosberg, he would have been WDC.

    Too much hobnobbing with Hollywood A list celebs and emulating that lifestyle, relying more on his raw talent than hard work, which wasn't enough to circumvent a reliability differential from Rosberg.

    Anyone else suspect likewise?
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    I can't help thinking that If Hamilton had put even half the amount of effort and focus into 2016 (particularly the start) as Rosberg, he would have been WDC.

    Too much hobnobbing with Hollywood A list celebs and emulating that lifestyle, relying more on his raw talent than hard work, which wasn't enough to circumvent a reliability differential from Rosberg.

    Anyone else suspect likewise?
    I can't argue against that. I felt Hamilton took Rosberg for granted abit and paid the price. He was at times scrappy with his starts and appeared on occasions to have arrived at some weekends unprepared and slightly wornout from his life outside F1. But l do not think that was the reason why he lost the title to Rosberg. But you are right in that he did not build enough points buffer to adsorb any unforeseen eventualities or at least make sure that it would be more difficult for reliability issues to wreck his title chances.

    That said, l have a deep feeling that it probably would not have made the slightest difference. The nature of the problems that afflicted Hamilton were very unusual to say the least.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 2nd January 2017 at 19:34.
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  5. #103
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    Your posts demonstrate a lack of clarity. Your opinions contradict one another. Therefore your opinions are diminished.

    Either you acknowledge the relative strengths and and weaknesses of both Rosberg and Hamilton and conclude that one or the other is the best performed driver, or that the mechanical failure of Hamilton's in Malaysia is the sole factor preventing a Hamilton title win, therefore diminishing the merit of Rosberg's success?

    Over the course of the season, the blown engine in Malaysia was not the most significant factor in deciding the title outcome. To demonstrate. These are the stats showing mechanical failures that occurred for Hamilton resulting in a dnf

    2014 - 2
    2015 - 1
    2016 - 1

    So Hamilton won the 14 & 15 titles despite an inferior reliability record compared to 16.

    But that doesn't show the true picture. To knowledgeable racing fans, they are able to put Hamilton's engine failure in context. So here it goes.

    Had the engine not blown. Hamilton would've won, and Rosberg would've finished 4th. That meant the adjusted title points would have Hamilton leading on 290pts to Rosberg's 285.

    This obviously validates and pleases a Hamilton fan such as yourself. However, it doesn't take out the adversity suffered by Rosberg in the race.

    Rosberg was plowed into by Vettel, adversely affecting his race. Had it not occured, he would've finished 2nd. Accounting for that, he would've been leading the title 291pts to Hamilton's 290.

    The context in which Rosberg in particular would've applied himself for the rest of the season would've been different. After Japan, he "shut up shop" "parked the bus" to make sure of the title win. Considering he finished 2nd to Hamilton in the last 4 races, that's 24 extra points Hamilton gained on Rosberg unchallenged. These wins lack the merit of wins in previous years. The points gained make up for all but 1pt.

    So in conclusion. Hamilton fans/Rosberg critics can only lament that Rosberg should've won the title by 4pts instead of 5.

  6. #104
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    But that's not all here are some more stats that demonstrate Rosberg's superior performance this season.

    Races where the winning driver made an error, but we're left unaffected due to generous runoff and favourable stewards judgements.

    Hamilton. 5 of 10.
    Rosberg. 0 of 9.

    Hamilton was better than Rosberg in 2016? Yeah right! One or two errors maybe you can let slide. But 5 when Rosberg did not commit one error? Keep drinking the koolaid.

    Here's more. Races where the driver adversely affected their teammates result.

    Hamilton. 2
    Rosberg. 0

    Total amount of races affected by being clouted by another driver.

    Rosberg. 4.
    Hamilton. 1.

    It's 5 for Rosberg if you include that Verstappen actually tagged Rosberg in Germany. Rosberg actually slowed down and allowed Verstappen room to return to the track. Yet he copped an unjust penalty from a guy who understeered into Al Unser jr to win the 1989 Indy 500.

    Races won where their teammate earlier conceded their position due to team orders, therefore significantly increasing their chances of winning.

    Hamilton. 1.
    Rosberg. 0.

    It's alright waffling on about pole positions. But the race results were primarily down to favourable pit strategy. The favourable pit strategy was designated to the leader of the pair, regardless of who it was. The leader of the race was primarily down to who led the first laps as the field formed a predictable order and pace.

    A contributing factor in leading the early laps was the form off the start. There's no point in getting pole if you blow the start. There qualifying is not the big deal it's made out to be.

    Stats for blown starts.

    Hamilton. Too numerous to mention.
    Rosberg. Too few to be significant.

    Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

  7. #105
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    Despite the lack of activity on this site. I remain unperturbed. Here are more key stats. They reflect my original point that Rosberg lifted the season, and Hamilton was not up to the standard he set from 14&15.

    GP where driver "clean sweeped" the weekend. As in, set pole, set fastest lap, and won the race.

    Rosberg. 2
    Hamilton. 1

    Alright. 2-1 on it's own might not be a big deal. But when compared to the two previous seasons. It's a telling tale. Clean sweeps for Rosberg and Hamilton in 14&15.

    Hamilton

    2014 - 3
    2015 - 4

    Rosberg

    Had never achieved this stat in his entire career prior to 2016!

    Rosberg lifted. Hamilton dipped.

    Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    Despite the lack of activity on this site. I remain unperturbed. Here are more key stats. They reflect my original point that Rosberg lifted the season, and Hamilton was not up to the standard he set from 14&15.

    GP where driver "clean sweeped" the weekend. As in, set pole, set fastest lap, and won the race.

    Rosberg. 2
    Hamilton. 1

    Alright. 2-1 on it's own might not be a big deal. But when compared to the two previous seasons. It's a telling tale. Clean sweeps for Rosberg and Hamilton in 14&15.

    Hamilton

    2014 - 3
    2015 - 4

    Rosberg

    Had never achieved this stat in his entire career prior to 2016!

    Rosberg lifted. Hamilton dipped.

    Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.
    Keep crunching those stats , racer !
    This is really interesting .

    I'm not one of those who can string these things together as cohesively in a debate , so I appreciate the effort .
    You can often , this year included , point to a single moment when the game was lost , but this inclusion of the small things all adding up gives the whole season more real context , showing that Nico really did up his game that little bit in all areas , giving him the edge in the end .
    And , in the end , he looked spent , and was , and that's a credit to Lewis , as he lost to a guy who was "all in" .

    Don't worry , racer . You're not alone , even if you do hear crickets around here now and then .

  9. Likes: journeyman racer (7th January 2017),N4D13 (5th January 2017),Rollo (5th January 2017)
  10. #107
    Senior Member Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    l do not think that was the reason why he lost the title to Rosberg. But you are right in that he did not build enough points buffer to adsorb any unforeseen eventualities or at least make sure that it would be more difficult for reliability issues to wreck his title chances.
    Barring the retirements:

    Hamilton's average finish: 2.10th
    Rosberg's average finish: 2.50th

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    That said, l have a deep feeling that it probably would not have made the slightest difference.
    +1 This.

    When your average points paying finish is on the podium (assuming you do finish), then the difference is mostly beyond the control of the meatbag behind the wheel.
    The Old Republic was a stupidly run organisation which deserved to be taken over. All Hail Palpatine!

  11. #108
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    Thanks Bagwan. I can't think of more relevant stats though.

    Edit:. I will say though. You'd have to question the merit of Hamilton's wins in Canada and Mexico. What other factors that contributed to it.

    If somebody other than Hamilton bumped Rosberg off in Canada. MB would've made a complaint of some kind a asked for a penalty. No doubt one would've been issued had that been the case. But if that happened, it would've denied MB an opportunity for a win and Constructor's championship points. So they weren't going to complain about it despite it being to the detriment of Rosberg.

    Rosberg should've finished 3rd under the circumstances. Hamilton, 4th at best. A points swing of 15pts towards Rosberg.

    Then in Mexico. No doubt Hamilton and Verstappen should've gotten penalties. But because the net result was the same (Hamilton 1st, Rosberg 2nd, Verstappen 3rd), no penalties were enforced.

    No action caused controversy at the time. But Rosberg had big points lead. So I think that contributed to it. Had it been a tighter points battle. A penalty would have to be given to Hamilton, and Rosberg left to win the race.
    Last edited by journeyman racer; 7th January 2017 at 08:16.

  12. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    Thanks Bagwan. I can't think of more relevant stats though.

    Edit:. I will say though. You'd have to question the merit of Hamilton's wins in Canada and Mexico. What other factors that contributed to it.

    If somebody other than Hamilton bumped Rosberg off in Canada. MB would've made a complaint of some kind a asked for a penalty. No doubt one would've been issued had that been the case. But if that happened, it would've denied MB an opportunity for a win and Constructor's championship points. So they weren't going to complain about it despite it being to the detriment of Rosberg.

    Rosberg should've finished 3rd under the circumstances. Hamilton, 4th at best. A points swing of 15pts towards Rosberg.

    Then in Mexico. No doubt Hamilton and Verstappen should've gotten penalties. But because the net result was the same (Hamilton 1st, Rosberg 2nd, Verstappen 3rd), no penalties were enforced.

    No action caused controversy at the time. But Rosberg had big points lead. So I think that contributed to it. Had it been a tighter points battle. A penalty would have to be given to Hamilton, and Rosberg left to win the race.
    yada yada yada

    We get it, you don't like Hamilton!
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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  13. #110
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    You don't think a penalty was warranted to Hamilton in Canada and Mexico?

    Consider that I didn't mention a penalty for Spain?

    You obviously couldn't counter the stats I thought up of that tell the actual story of the season. You have to regurgitate the same old boring stats that don't say much.

    Go on. Tell me how many poles and wins Hamilton got last year? How he completely crushed Rosberg, who didn't even bother to attempt to pass him in the last 4 races Even when Hamilton was deliberately slowing down!

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