President Trump

[Rollo]

If indeed more people voted for Hillary, and even among the Trump voters a sense of civility exists (which it surely does among most of them) then the fear of him becoming a dictator is bit paranoid.

I can't honestly think of a genuine political dictator. Every dictator that I can think of in history, rose because they had the backing of the military. When you have Pentagon Chiefs of Staff who are suspicious of Trump, that seems impossible.

[Stan Reid]

Clinton didn't or couldn't work as hard as Trump so maybe it was her health that did her in.

[janvanvurpa]

I can't honestly think of a genuine political dictator. Every dictator that I can think of in history, rose because they had the backing of the military. When you have Pentagon Chiefs of Staff who are suspicious of Trump, that seems impossible.

Seems you forgot last century's big one who was elected in 1932 and 1933 which brought Adolph and his gang to power.

[Storm]

^But the party never had an absolute majority I think and they did plenty of shenanigans to gain that power by twisting the senile Hindenburg's arm.

[Rollo]

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Seems you forgot last century's big one who was elected in 1932 and 1933 which brought Adolph and his gang to power.

I was not aware that Adolf did not have the backing of the military. I'm pretty sure that Machtergreifung was a thing. I'm also pretty sure that those guys in brown shirts and called themselves the Sturmabteilung, were also a thing.

Shall I defer to your better knowledge and assume your worldview that this was just the Tony winning performance of an elaborate theatre company?

[janvanvurpa]

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I was not aware that Adolf did not have the backing of the military. I'm pretty sure that Machtergreifung was a thing. I'm also pretty sure that those guys in brown shirts and called themselves the Sturmabteilung, were also a thing.

Shall I defer to your better knowledge and assume your worldview that this was just the Tony winning performance of an elaborate theatre company?

Everything I can read from all sides current and later there was zero "love" or respect for the "Austrian Corporal" from the Prussian dominated Officier class of the German military..begiining thru the end
The...SS* and SA** (SS being Sturm Staffel and SA being Sturm Abteilung, and SS was originally part of SA) on the other hand were a "Private Army"... In fact the SA was soon to be purged because they were too leftie)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

The one similarity I see is that the mainstay of who voted for Adolph and Friends and who voted for the Orange Thing with a dead Animal on his head were both "disaffected voters"..then primarily low level low educated shopkeeper class (and try and remember how old cities were with every block lined on ground floor with shops after shops after shop...for greens or coal or stationery or newspapers or apotek or whatever) LOTS of shopkeepers.. The did exit polling then too.. According to what I have read (some KPD analysis and oral histories of KPD people and later writing by active players in that election) These shopkeepers felt 'threatened by the rising income and social status of working class people'...In THAT we see similarity that in the old induftrial areas we call "The Rust Belt", there is an enormous seething discontent..hate even....and a demagogue like Drumph can easily point at a whole lotta people and say to these pissed off people who have been fawked and are pissed "Its all THEIR fault"..

Worked then, works now..

Oh the other obvious parallell: YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGELY absurd claims that "Only I can save you"

Since most Americans are authoritarian followers, that works every time.




*SS tended to be "middle class"
**SA tended to be "working class" and unemployed

[Starter]

....then primarily low level low educated shopkeeper class....

One important thing to remember (and many lefties tend to forget this) is that uneducated is not synonymous with unintelligent. The first can be fixed fairly easily and the second can't be fixed.

These shopkeepers felt 'threatened by the rising income and social status of working class people'...

That's not what has happened here. The working class is not advancing in income or status and that was a driving reason in so many of them abandoning their traditional support for the Democratic candidate.

Since most Americans are authoritarian followers, that works every time.

So are most people everywhere.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Since most Americans are authoritarian followers, that works every time.

Not necessarily. I would say that a lot of Americans are just followers of whatever media and corporations sell them. Otherwise I can't explain Britney Spears, Kardashians etc. Americans will buy almost anything properly promoted and still think they have made their choice freely.

[janvanvurpa]

Not necessarily. I would say that a lot of Americans are just followers of whatever media and corporations sell them. Otherwise I can't explain Britney Spears, Kardashians etc. Americans will buy almost anything properly promoted and still think they have made their choice freely.

Oh that is true but the "authority" in that case is the voice and pictures of the TV advert.

Best illustration is Home Simpson who, the instant the TV shows a image of "Blatz Beer" he begins mumbling "must consume Blatz beer, must consume Blatz beet"

Some might say its Pavlovian conditioning, but plenty of serious research agrees about the essentially authoritarian follower nature of a good majority of Americans.

And I know and history shows that the tendency is strong in many places. Heres a nice look at the particular North American strain:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer...oritarians.pdf

[janvanvurpa]

One important thing to remember (and many lefties tend to forget this) is that uneducated is not synonymous with unintelligent. The first can be fixed fairly easily and the second can't be fixed.

What an insulting statement and perfect demonstration.
First I doubt you have ever met or spoken at any length with a "leftie" in the meaning it has in the majority of the world.

Second, the link between conservatism, and authoritarianism is well established and it is "what everybody says" which counts for conservatives...and part and parcel with conservatism is a hierarchical class structure....and a major marker of position in the social hierarchy is schooling (which is a different thing entirely from education but is usually, by uneducated people, conflated) So it is in fact so-called conservatives who habitually equate "educated" with intelligence. It helps them to justify social differences.

No real leftie would ever do that since we do not confuse "schooling" with education.

The working class is not advancing in income or status and that was a driving reason in so many of them abandoning their traditional support for the Democratic candidate.

Thank you Captain Obvious...

So are most people everywhere.

"most"? "everywhere"? I think people have finally realised 25 years after the fact that the Democrats under Bill Clinton and onward have abandoned their tradition broad based working class base and embraced fully Wall Street and the social elite, what has been called "The Creative Class" like "Technology entrepreneurs" and Wall Street bond traders and Investment bankers and Bio-tech entrepreneurs...in short they are and support a meritocracy: if you did good and make a lotta dough we're your buddies.
Look at all the record profits and salaries of hi tech and bankers and bond trading since the Bush collapse of 08... That's where all the recovery is.

People are pissed. Drumph promised to make Merikuh great again and they voted against "more of the same" and nothing more.

Such a shame that nobody has thought too hard about policy and ability to follow thru with such grand but vague promises..