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  1. #1761
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    Quote Originally Posted by eib1 View Post
    maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)
    i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
    could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

    back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
    that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.

  2. #1762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC View Post
    Quite an alarming start to 2017 for Citroen and Meeke.

    They missed most of last year to test and be ready with the new car and yet those that started much later (MSport) or from scratch (Toyota) have started significantly better.

    Worrying.
    There is one more thing I don't understand with all this preparation time, where is the third car! How can you not have the third car ready for the first event to be able to fight for the championship. It must be weird switching from the 2017 and 2016 spec cars as a driver! Money issues most likely.

  3. Likes: A FONDO (14th February 2017),pantealex (14th February 2017)
  4. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
    could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

    back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
    that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.
    Come on guys, Mr. Loeb has been kicked off from Citroen ages.

  5. #1764
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
    could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

    back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
    that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.
    AFAIK C4 was the only WRC car with uneven torque split where more torque went to the rear axle (on asphalt only I think).
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  6. #1765
    Senior Member EstWRC's Avatar
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    quite an irony that every time Meeke had a good result last year he repeated: "Just wait till i get into the new car"....now he is in it and he is nowhere. i hope he gets his issues sorted, something must have gone wrong somwhere.

    and i would also raise the question about citroen not having 3 cars ready...m-sport had 4 cars in sweden and they are a private team.
    #8 Ott Tänak - Martin Järveoja #8
    - World Rally Champions 2019 -

  7. Likes: pantealex (14th February 2017),steve.mandzij (14th February 2017),WRC1 (14th February 2017)
  8. #1766
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eib1 View Post
    maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)
    Matton’s words are more likely to be “stay on the road” than “you’ve to win”…

    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
    could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?
    back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
    that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.
    You can be right, but that raises an uncomfortable question: wasn’t the C3 mainly developed by Meeke according to his driving style?

    Probably the car handling problems are setup issues that can be fixed with more testing, but before start blaming Citroen Meeke’s fans should remember his role on the development. If the car’s not working properly it’s the whole team fault (including drivers) and the day it’ll be fixed (soon, we all hope) it will be thanks to the whole team efforts.

    Honestly I still believe that on gravel the car will perform ok and we just need a trouble free minded Meeke to see him fighting for the wins. Fingers crossed!
    Rally addict since 1982

  9. Likes: jparker (14th February 2017)
  10. #1767
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    Of course the test driver's role is very important but he can't affect everything. He can give feedback to the engineers but he can't do the diff mapping etc. himself. There may be also some technical glitches which cause that the diff works different way than it theoretically should based on the mapping etc. It's complex issue and may have many root causes. From us some finger pointing is only speculations.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  11. Likes: cali (14th February 2017),dimviii (14th February 2017),GravelBen (15th February 2017)
  12. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    He can give feedback to the engineers but he can't do the diff mapping etc. himself. There may be also some technical glitches which cause that the diff works different way than it theoretically should based on the mapping etc.
    What is Meeke's experience on driving cars with this kind of configuration, is it enough for good valuable feedback?
    There are two rules for success
    1. Never tell everything you know.

  13. Likes: A FONDO (14th February 2017)
  14. #1769
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
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    IMHO there are two different levels of feedback. The driver delivers his feelings, sensual feedback, confidence etc. - for that it's not that important what are the exact technical means behind the car's behavior. The engineer transform the driver's feedback into the exact world of numbers and values. It is good if the driver is also an engineer but he can never understand everything so in the end the engineers are those who tune the car to get as close as possible to the driver's feelings. I think that it's sometimes very difficult to balance the two levels - when something is very good on theoretical basis but the drivers don't feel comfortable with it at all.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  15. #1770
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    I think it is important to see the difference between technically fast car (engineers car) and confidence inspiring car (drivers car). Good car (specially good rally car) must be a compromise or both together if it is possible.

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