Tallinn had a hard night

[cali]

Actually I could imagine it easily. Novadays Helsinki is full of fopreign people anyway. And those who aren't foreign, support them with a hard on. So, basicly what you see in the streets of Helsinki, is flags from all around the world all the time. Should civíl rights be broken in Iraq, their flags wave around the streets. Should something happen in Somalia, surprise, Somalian flags wave around the streets. I wouldn't be surprised if there'll be Soviet flags AND Estonian flags waving to support you both.

t

Flags in Helsinki are waving, but people are not against your goverment/regime. If your Talvisota would've gone opposite way, you would not speak this way! To understand it, you would've have to live in soviet regime. At this very moment, you don't know what your talking about.

[cali]

Same here, but maybe it's not about the statue, i belive it's more about esonian and estonian-russian relations in general, the fuss around the statue just broght that up in daylight.

True Tomi, you seem to have some clue about it. It is abnormal, that people who have lived here 40-50 yrs are not speaking nor understanding a single word in estonian, but we estonians have to speak russian! They still think that they are the masters - it was about time to strike back! I'm happy that this very moment we have goverment who is strong enough to do that. Also you have seen footage or should see how russians are acting. Yesterday they were like animals, actually most of my friends thought that they were not caring about "The Bronze Soldier" but had the first time reason for rioting. I could not see anger or aggrevation from their face, but pure happiness. Happiness of destroying, happiness which was caused by chaos they made. They robbed stores, but stealed mostly liquor/booze. They enjoyed the destruction. Sorry guys, but you don't have to live with these idiots, we have to!

[Kakuke]

I think that the war we saw yesterday in Tallinn was a result of a big work of Russian puppeteers. Some people are being manipulated from somewhere. The statue stood there for years and no one even noticed it. But about a year ago something happened and it rose to the front pages of the media. It become a symbol for Russian nazis and an altar for their fellow travellers.
Some people, who were on the streets yesterday, were paid for being there and for protesting. Most of them were very young and drunk and, as it was shown on TV, the organisers of the meeting could not hold them back. It seems that someone wants to besmirch our country by that kind of "breaking news". It's not a war between Estonians and Russians, it's a media war but the real enemy is hidden somewhere.
The majority of Russian people here respect us, our laws and culture, they are just Russians in Estonia. But someone is interested in blowing the coals and defaming. It has became more and more obvious during last year and removing of their symbol was an urgent move for our government. Of course we can always ask a question, what if they did not move Aljosha, would it have been better... We never know.

[cali]

True, i didn't want to go that deep, but everything what you just said is so true

[A.F.F.]

t

Flags in Helsinki are waving, but people are not against your goverment/regime. If your Talvisota would've gone opposite way, you would not speak this way! To understand it, you would've have to live in soviet regime. At this very moment, you don't know what your talking about.

Oh I understand all right cali. But you asked a question which I SPECIFICLY answered. It was merely a lame try of joke anyways....

[Tomi]

The majority of Russian people here respect us, our laws and culture, they are just Russians in Estonia. But someone is interested in blowing the coals and defaming. It has became more and more obvious during last year and removing of their symbol was an urgent move for our government. Of course we can always ask a question, what if they did not move Aljosha, would it have been better... We never know.

I think it was only a matter of time when something like this would happen, but I dont think this is organised from outside estonia, but because of this now there is many who try to benefit from this in political way both in russia and estonia.

[janneppi]

It is abnormal, that people who have lived here 40-50 yrs are not speaking nor understanding a single word in estonian, but we estonians have to speak russian!

But they didn't live in Estonia, they lived in Soviet Union where they didn't need to learn Estonian, all of a sudden their country is gone and replaced by one that is hostile to them.

Of course there is little excuse for the younger generation, but as it's seen all over Europe, minorities, especially teens that have been brought up in their parent's home country's culture, aren't very happy about being something else.

They still think that they are the masters - it was about time to strike back! I'm happy that this very moment we have goverment who is strong enough to do that.

Out of interest, how dependant are you of Russian oil or electricity or trade in general?

Also you have seen footage or should see how russians are acting. Yesterday they were like animals, actually most of my friends thought that they were not caring about "The Bronze Soldier" but had the first time reason for rioting. I could not see anger or aggrevation from their face, but pure happiness. Happiness of destroying, happiness which was caused by chaos they made. They robbed stores, but stealed mostly liquor/booze. They enjoyed the destruction. Sorry guys, but you don't have to live with these idiots, we have to!

I agree with you that the riots a lot more than just the statue, mostly young people, quite similar to what Paris went through last year. Hopefully you can contain it with the alcohol ban.

The older Russian people who might actually care for the statue as more than just a nationalitic excuse weren't there in the riot, they were tucked away in their beds by nine pm.

[janneppi]

There was a nice analysis in the news about this today.
The gist of it was that this was coming all along about something, Estonia get's to play a big boy and throw water balloons at Russia, while Russia shows it's people she cares about them putting the minute little nation back in it's place.
Both countries know full well nothing serious is going to come of this, no one outside Baltic is going to remember this year on now.

[jens]

Today in news placards like "CCCP forever!!" were shown and also people last night and in today's night walk around with Russian flags and shout "Russia-Russia!" Most of them were young, but they have got that attitude from their parents or Russian Federation. The Russian integration into Estonia is not working! It seems that in heart many Russians still want to see Estonia as a part of Russia and in that case - well, we really can't have deep and serious negotiations!

To me it also seems that the Bronze Soldier is just some kind of alibi to express the hate towards Estonia. And Russians try to agitate more ill blood. Btw, also recently in Russia several such statues, which should commemorate WWII, have been removed and no-one has protested!

IMO Russia is actually quite satisfied to see that Soldier removed - that's positive to their propaganda. They seem to need enemies - look at their problems with Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine, etc.

Maybe that text seems a bit ex parte, but well - that's how I see that situation.

[Eki]

I think both sides are acting childish and agree with this Finnish historian:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2007...41779_uu.shtml

Suomalaisasiantuntija:
Viron hallitus toiminut epäviisaasti
27.4.2007 17:42

Tallinnan mellakat ovat tulosta Viron hallituksen epäviisaasta politiikasta, sanoo historioitsija Martti Turtola, joka toimi aiemmin Suomen Viron-instituutin johtajana Tallinnassa.

- Olen sitä mieltä, että patsaan olisi pitänyt saada olla paikallaan. Tässä on nyt ajettu väen väkisin kaksi kansanosaa toisiaan vastaan. Kun aikaisemmin ei ole ollut mitään vakavia yhteenottoja, niin miksi haetaan ikään kuin välttämättä tällaista tilannetta, Turtola arvioi STT:n puhelinhaastattelussa.

- En usko, että mellakat ovat Moskovassa masinoituja, ja vaikka jäljet sinne johtaisivatkin, niin ei pidä antautua provosoitavaksi, Turtola sanoi.

Virolaiset ovat Turtolan mukaan puhuneet "miehittäjän patsaasta", mutta tilanne ei hänen mukaansa ole lainkaan näin yksiselitteinen.

Turtola kertoi valmistelevansa syksyllä ilmestyvää tutkimusta Viron siirtymisestä neuvostotasavallaksi toisen maailmansodan aikana. Hänen mukaansa on aivan liian yksipuolinen näkemys, että Neuvostoliitto miehitti Viron asevoimin virolaisten tahdosta piittaamatta.

"Pientä kansaa pitäisi ymmärtää"

Myös Venäjän politiikka Viroa kohtaan on Turtolan mukaan ollut selvästi joustamatonta. - En millään lailla halua puolustella venäläisiä. Heidän pitäisi ymmärtää pienen valtion kansan kärsimykset ja kansallinen ylpeys.

Turtola sanoo virolaisten ja venäläisten suhteiden olleen yllättävän hyvät niinä neljänä vuotena, jotka hän oli Viron-instituutissa Tallinnassa.

- Nyt ollaan pilaamassa se, mitä viimeisen 15 vuoden aikana on rakennettu, Turtola huomautti. Hänen mukaansa presidentti Ilveksen viimeistään olisi pitänyt rauhoittaa tilanne ja määrätä, että venäläissotilaiden muistomerkki jätetään rauhaan.