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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazio View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y18HS1EK_OM
    It appears in the video that Kimi actually got caught out by Max's deceleration into the corner!
    I doubt that very much. Watch it again in very slow motion [stop the play in small steps if you haven't got slow option]. It all happened approaching the corner, not quite where they would normally start to slow for the corner but approaching it rapidly.
    Verstapenn moved with Raikonenn as he moved right to go on the outside and left to attempt the inside, then right again to avoid the imminent crash. It all happened really fast but it was clearly two change of position.

    The rule says a driver can have only one change of position to defend. Once they have made that change, they must negotiate the approaching corner from that position. Another change of position to take the racing line that was previously abandoned in the first change of direction and may be seen to constitutes a second change of direction. Which appears to be the case.

    But l suppose, it would not be consistent if Verstapenn was punished for this, when Rosberg was not punished for his similar Spanish maneuver. What to notice though, was that on each occasion that this type of defensive manuevar have been exercised, there has been some sort of crash. I suppose you could say they were borderline cases, but really hardcore racing which we see little of in recent times for good reason.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 26th July 2016 at 11:04.

  2. Likes: Mia 01 (26th July 2016)
  3. #22
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    I'd say Ricciardo for clearly beating Verstappen this time and finishing as "best of the rest" behind the two Mercedes.

    Also Alonso for being "best of the rest" behind the big three teams.

  4. Likes: Zico (27th July 2016)
  5. #23
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    I have rewatched the move numerous times now, and for the life of me I cannot identify where Max would be to blame.
    Kimi faked a move to the right prompting Max moved over to defend, then Kimi moved over to his left as Max began to take the corner then for some odd reason Kimi switched back to the right hitting Max in the process.

  6. Likes: jens (26th July 2016)
  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    If everyone on the track start to drive like that, there would regular crashes on race weekends. Waiting to defend at the last moment after the attacking driver has made a move is asking for someone to crash into him. The Raikonnen crash into Verstapenn was completely unavoidable. In certain circumstances, it could have been much worst. And there was the double change of directions, which is simply not how it is done. I don't think that is great defending or driving. It is not much different to Rosberg's defensive move at Spain that caused the Mercedes wipe out.
    The impact happened when Kimi changed his mind. Though Max did twitch towards the inside on Kimi's first move, that is all it was. It was far from a block, and there was room for Kimi on the inside. When Kimi went back to the right, Max was on a straight line for the apex, not blocking, and not in any way closing the door.

    I think Kimi out-faked himself, finding room on the inside, and then questioning if he could make the corner on the inside without causing a collision.

  8. #25
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    The leading driver can only change lin one time in the braking zone. The chasing has the right to change how many times he will.

    MAX, yo yo yo.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yodasarmpit View Post
    I have rewatched the move numerous times now, and for the life of me I cannot identify where Max would be to blame.
    Kimi faked a move to the right prompting Max moved over to defend, then Kimi moved over to his left as Max began to take the corner then for some odd reason Kimi switched back to the right hitting Max in the process.
    Thats what l thought initially after seeing the overhead shots of both cars as they fought for the corner. Then l changed my mind when i saw the onboard view from Kimi's car. There was no space on the inside as Max did not leave a cars width as the rule demands that he does. If Kimi had tried to take the inside line, he would have crashed into the side of the redbull. Avoiding action to the outside was his only option, and even so he still could not avoid clipping the redbull.

    It was on the very limit of legallity, but it is begging for a walloping up the backside and that would happen very soon.

  10. Likes: Mia 01 (27th July 2016),Zico (27th July 2016)
  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    Thats what l thought initially after seeing the overhead shots of both cars as they fought for the corner. Then l changed my mind when i saw the onboard view from Kimi's car. There was no space on the inside as Max did not leave a cars width as the rule demands that he does. If Kimi had tried to take the inside line, he would have crashed into the side of the redbull. Avoiding action to the outside was his only option, and even so he still could not avoid clipping the redbull.

    It was on the very limit of legallity, but it is begging for a walloping up the backside and that would happen very soon.

    The way I understand the rule, there is no obligation to leave a cars width when defending unless the car is already alongside. You can essentially block a line by leaving less than a car width to either track limit, you just can't do it when the cars are already overlapped and the chasing car would have to run off track or be hit.

    From the views I saw, it appeared to me that Kimi had room inside regardless. But assuming you are correct and there wasn't room, I still don't see any violation of the rules.

    As for your last comment, I agree that it could have easily caused an impact. But IMHO tight racing often causes that situation, and often creates some impacts that are simply legitimate racing incidents, with neither driver making bad choices. As much as I was hoping Kimi would get by Max, Max stayed cool and defended very well IMO.

  12. Likes: Bagwan (28th July 2016),Tazio (28th July 2016)
  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    The way I understand the rule, there is no obligation to leave a cars width when defending unless the car is already alongside. You can essentially block a line by leaving less than a car width to either track limit, you just can't do it when the cars are already overlapped and the chasing car would have to run off track or be hit.

    From the views I saw, it appeared to me that Kimi had room inside regardless. But assuming you are correct and there wasn't room, I still don't see any violation of the rules.

    As for your last comment, I agree that it could have easily caused an impact. But IMHO tight racing often causes that situation, and often creates some impacts that are simply legitimate racing incidents, with neither driver making bad choices. As much as I was hoping Kimi would get by Max, Max stayed cool and defended very well IMO.
    That's exactly the way I see it , Shifter .

    Kimi misjudged it by the tiniest of amounts , shown by the fact they were both able to carry on .
    One could say that Max also misjudged it as well , as he was also in this racing incident .

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    The way I understand the rule, there is no obligation to leave a cars width when defending unless the car is already alongside. You can essentially block a line by leaving less than a car width to either track limit, you just can't do it when the cars are already overlapped and the chasing car would have to run off track or be hit.

    From the views I saw, it appeared to me that Kimi had room inside regardless. But assuming you are correct and there wasn't room, I still don't see any violation of the rules.

    As for your last comment, I agree that it could have easily caused an impact. But IMHO tight racing often causes that situation, and often creates some impacts that are simply legitimate racing incidents, with neither driver making bad choices. As much as I was hoping Kimi would get by Max, Max stayed cool and defended very well IMO.
    Yeah, we're with you too!

    May the forza be with you

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