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  1. #11
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    The dodgy strategy that Mercedes put out to Hamilton at Austria really gives me cause for concern if they introduce team orders. I think Mercedes has lost some credibility at this race. I doubt they are genuinely being equivalent in their support for both of their drivers. there is mounting suggestions that Mercedes is seeking to engineer a WDC for Rosberg. Baku seemed suspect when Hamilton got the car just right and was quickest in all practise sessions then had a clearly dodgy car during the qualifying sessions and the race.

    The strategy at Austria had all the hallmarks of Monaco 2014. I wasn't convinced that was an error and Austria confirms it to me that it wasn't.

    Team order would give Mercedes the unfettered opportunity to more effectively achieve the outcome they are after. Ok, you may argue that they pay the driver's so it is up to them to decide which driver to support. I don't have a problem with that argument. But just do it openly. Trying to play on the intelligence of the fans, press and the wider F1 community is just insulting.

    We would have a situation where a team would have used a three time world champion as a number two driver. You can read whatever you like into that one. But Rosberg would not be a credible world champion in this circumstances. He would certainly not hold a candle to his father who did it in an era that was incredibly dangerous and on his own effort against some of the finest drivers of his time. I doubt he would have much respect from other world champions on the grid either.

    Nico need to beat Lewis fair and square to be a credible world champion. With the margin he has at the moment and some clever calculating driving, recognizing his strength and weaknesses and maximizing his strenghts would win him the WDC on his own effort. That would make him a very memorable world champion and the first driver to beat Hamilton in championship fight in the same machinery. Anything short of that would only be a mockery of the F1 driver championship. And us the fans would recognize it for what it is.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 4th July 2016 at 21:04.

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  3. #12
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    Will Mercedes now use team orders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    Interesting thought. IIRC Toto stated that this will not influence contract negotiations with Nico, but how could it not? At some point, the situation with these two drivers becomes untenable, and you have to fix it. Lewis is already under contract, but Nico is not. If I'm Mercedes, that's how you fix the problem.

    Possible paths for Mercedes at this point:

    1. Re-sign Nico, hope that Lewis and Nico sort themselves out. Best of luck...

    2. Don't re-sign Nico, replace him with Pascal. Pros: keeps young blood in the team, Pascal looks like an exciting and competent young driver, counterbalance excitement at Red Bull with Max. Also, he's German. Cons: frying pan, fire. etc. Pascal seems smart and mature, but he's ambitious. Depending on how things work out, you could still have fireworks.

    3. Don't re-sign Nico, replace him with Rio Haryanto. Probably won't reduce the number of crashes, but at least they won't be crashing into each other.

    4. Release Lewis from his contract, possibly in negotiation with another major team, replace him with...? Pascal, as above, gives you an all-German team. Maybe that has some value, but doesn't necessarily solve your problem, same as above.

    I dunno, but option 2 looks the best available to me.
    Great thoughts. I think Mercedes will be looking at whether these two can continue together past the end of this season. As you say Nico is out of contract so that is the cheapest outcome. Buying out Hamilton's contract would cost a pretty penny. Lewis is also a huge pull for their marketing due to his appeal in Asia, Europe and the US. I personally think he's a self absorbed son of a gun in his private life, but he gets a lot of attention and appeals to the younger cool consumer. Nico is just a normal guy without the wow factor. I think these sorts of details matter when picking a driver to front your marques race team.

    Lewis has also given Mercedes 2 drivers championships and all three of his world titles have been won with Mercedes power. He's given a lot back.

    I really do think we'll see Lewis with a younger teammate next season.
    .

  4. Likes: Zico (4th July 2016)
  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    Interesting thought. IIRC Toto stated that this will not influence contract negotiations with Nico, but how could it not? At some point, the situation with these two drivers becomes untenable, and you have to fix it. Lewis is already under contract, but Nico is not. If I'm Mercedes, that's how you fix the problem.

    Possible paths for Mercedes at this point:

    1. Re-sign Nico, hope that Lewis and Nico sort themselves out. Best of luck...

    2. Don't re-sign Nico, replace him with Pascal. Pros: keeps young blood in the team, Pascal looks like an exciting and competent young driver, counterbalance excitement at Red Bull with Max. Also, he's German. Cons: frying pan, fire. etc. Pascal seems smart and mature, but he's ambitious. Depending on how things work out, you could still have fireworks.

    3. Don't re-sign Nico, replace him with Rio Haryanto. Probably won't reduce the number of crashes, but at least they won't be crashing into each other.

    4. Release Lewis from his contract, possibly in negotiation with another major team, replace him with...? Pascal, as above, gives you an all-German team. Maybe that has some value, but doesn't necessarily solve your problem, same as above.

    I dunno, but option 2 looks the best available to me.
    There is the other option of having a clear number one and number two driver line up. Rosberg has messed up right in the middle of contract negotiations, he is now very much on the back foot. He may well end up a number two driver if he wants to stay with the team.

  6. Likes: Zico (4th July 2016)
  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by henners88 View Post
    Great thoughts. I think Mercedes will be looking at whether these two can continue together past the end of this season. As you say Nico is out of contract so that is the cheapest outcome. Buying out Hamilton's contract would cost a pretty penny. Lewis is also a huge pull for their marketing due to his appeal in Asia, Europe and the US. I personally think he's a self absorbed son of a gun in his private life, but he gets a lot of attention and appeals to the younger cool consumer. Nico is just a normal guy without the wow factor. I think these sorts of details matter when picking a driver to front your marques race team.

    Lewis has also given Mercedes 2 drivers championships and all three of his world titles have been won with Mercedes power. He's given a lot back.

    I really do think we'll see Lewis with a younger teammate next season.
    I think Mercedes knows that with Hamilton in their car, they can take on whatever the opposition throw at them in 2017 onwards. He is a fighter and a winner. And the most likely option to guarantee a continued success in their future campaign.

    Tbh, Rosberg is not that robust under acute competition. Based on what we have seen this season, l doubt he can be reliable to put up a robust resistance in a dog fight against Vettel, Ricciado or Verstapenn if they have a competitive car in 2017. Each of these guys are vicious predators. They attack and overtake just as hard as Hamilton does. And they defend just as aggressively as Hamilton; as Rosberg discovered from Verstapenn in recent times.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 4th July 2016 at 21:25.

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    We would have a situation where a team would have used a three time world champion as a number two driver. You can read whatever you like into that one. But Rosberg would not be a credible world champion in this circumstances. He would certainly not hold a candle to his father who did it in an era that was incredibly dangerous and on his own effort against some of the finest drivers of his time.
    Nico has won as many races this year alone as his father has in his entire career. Keke is the only driver ever in the history of the sport to only score one victory in his championship winning year, and he only became world champion because his main rivals (Villeneuve & Pironi) managed to kill or gravely injure themselves.
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    Nico has won as many races this year alone as his father has in his entire career. Keke is the only driver ever in the history of the sport to only score one victory in his championship winning year, and he only became world champion because his main rivals (Villeneuve & Pironi) managed to kill or gravely injure themselves.
    Yeah , but that doesn't fit with the "Nico is useless" story nearly as well , so let's just leave out the facts can we , please ?

  10. Likes: gm99 (4th July 2016),Zico (4th July 2016)
  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Yeah , but that doesn't fit with the "Nico is useless" story nearly as well , so let's just leave out the facts can we , please ?
    Nico isn't useless, nobody has said that. He's just not in the top tier of current drivers and this shows when he rams others off track when he cracks under pressure
    .

  12. #18
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    I think Nico Rosberg is in the top club at the moment personally.

    He may not be the very best but 3rd or 4th best right now. Thats pretty good. However he would be maybe 2nd if he cut out these moments. Just why Hamilton would be ranked higher by me if he didnt have the ability to mess up promising situations sometimes too.

    I think using team orders would be a massive error right now. If the were on the verge of losing the titles then fair enough.
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

  13. Likes: N4D13 (5th July 2016)
  14. #19
    Senior Member steveaki13's Avatar
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    For anyone interested as of right now I rank the top drivers thus

    1. Hamilton
    2. Vettel
    3. Alonso
    4. Rosberg
    5. Verstappen
    6. Ricciardo
    7. Raikkonen
    8. Button
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

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  16. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    The dodgy strategy that Mercedes put out to Hamilton at Austria really gives me cause for concern if they introduce team orders. I think Mercedes has lost some credibility at this race. I doubt they are genuinely being equivalent in their support for both of their drivers. there is mounting suggestions that Mercedes is seeking to engineer a WDC for Rosberg. Baku seemed suspect when Hamilton got the car just right and was quickest in all practise sessions then had a clearly dodgy car during the qualifying sessions and the race.

    The strategy at Austria had all the hallmarks of Monaco 2014. I wasn't convinced that was an error and Austria confirms it to me that it wasn't.

    Team order would give Mercedes the unfettered opportunity to more effectively achieve the outcome they are after. Ok, you may argue that they pay the driver's so it is up to them to decide which driver to support. I don't have a problem with that argument. But just do it openly. Trying to play on the intelligence of the fans, press and the wider F1 community is just insulting.

    We would have a situation where a team would have used a three time world champion as a number two driver. You can read whatever you like into that one. But Rosberg would not be a credible world champion in this circumstances. He would certainly not hold a candle to his father who did it in an era that was incredibly dangerous and on his own effort against some of the finest drivers of his time. I doubt he would have much respect from other world champions on the grid either.

    Nico need to beat Lewis fair and square to be a credible world champion. With the margin he has at the moment and some clever calculating driving, recognizing his strength and weaknesses and maximizing his strenghts would win him the WDC on his own effort. That would make him a very memorable world champion and the first driver to beat Hamilton in championship fight in the same machinery. Anything short of that would only be a mockery of the F1 driver championship. And us the fans would recognize it for what it is.
    With all due respect, but that was utter tripe. There were no strategic mistakes by Merc in Austria. They tried a two stopper to get Nico up the field, which sort of worked. Lewis was unlucky due to the botched pitstop and the timing of the safety car. If you are alluding to the differing tyre choices in the last stint, I'll have you know that it was dictated by what tyres had been selected before the weekend. Lewis simply didn#t have any Supersoft sets left whereas Nico had run out of softs.
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

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