Whose fault is it?

[Nitrodaze]

So the arguments begin... Whose fault is it you ask? Well, if you can be objective then these are the facts:-

1. Hamilton lost the drag race to the first corner. Rosberg overtakes on the outside which shows how Hamilton has taken care to give Nico tons of space to avoid a collision.
2. They come out of the corner in to the short straight to turn two. Nico moves left to cover that side
3. Nico discovers that he was in the wrong engine mode and proceeds to correct it quickly before turn two. At this point, Nico was down on power and Hamilton was clearly much faster as he was bearing down on a slower Nico.
4. From Hamilton's perspective, Nico had the left side covered but had the right side open by more than a cars width. Hamilton, seeing the opportunity on the right, decides to overtake. Meanwhile, Nico was fiddling with knobs on the steering.
5. Nico finished just in time to see Hamilton heading for the open right side then turned sharply to cut him off. But his reaction was abit late. Hamilton had to take to the grass to avoid a collision, lost grip on the grass, spun round and crashed into Nico.

So the questions are as follows:-

Would any other driver in the grid in Hamilton's position seeing the opportunity and the clear open door to Nico's right not attempt to go for the overtake?

Did Nico, knowing he was in the incorrect engine mode, hence would be slower than the cars behind him momentarily take the right action to avoid a collision from the faster cars behind him? Hence was his attempt to defend the open right side of him under his circumstances not dangerous? Both drivers walked away from that one, but it could have also easily been a fatal accident for Hamilton.

This is racing, not an effing procession. I think Nico should have left a car's width as Hamilton left for him at turn one. His late move to defend the open right side as a result of correcting being in the wrong engine mode was reckless and unsportmanlike. It is similar to his move on Ricciado that resulted in him having a puncture to the rear when he had the opportunity to take the lead of the championship going into the mid season break in 2014.

In my opinion, the stewards at the race were crap. We wanted to see a fair fight at the front, what we saw today was very sub-standard defensive drive by Rosberg that cost Mercedes easy 43 points. I was quite surprise to hear Lauda who normally is very objective about his opinions blame Hamilton before the analysis of the accident had taken place. Hamilton was abit naive today to quickly accept fault without first waiting to see all the facts of the accident before putting his hand up to accept the fault.

Should we expect accidents to occur each time Rosberg receives challenge from a charging Hamilton? At this rate, Mercedes may hand the drivers title to Redbull or Ferrari [if they get their act together].

It is not respectable to not accept fault when it is clearly yours. Nico caused what could have been a fatal accident by not leaving a cars width. You may argue that he was in front and had the right to defend. Our conversation would have been very different if Hamilton got killed due to that accident which was clearly very reckless.

[dj_bytedisaster]

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This is racing, not an effing procession. I think Nico should have left a car's width as Hamilton left for him at turn one. His late move to defend the open right side as a result of correcting being in the wrong engine mode was reckless and unsportmanlike. It is similar to his move on Ricciado that resulted in him having a puncture to the rear when he had the opportunity to take the lead of the championship going into the mid season break in 2014.

There's the flaw in your logic, because Nico started to move right BEFORE Lewis did. In fact his move was practically telegraphed. Lewis thought his speed advantage was big enough to be alongside before Nico could close the gap, but he misjudged that. According to Stewards verdict Rosberg simply kept his line by the time Lewis came alongside, wchich is a valid bahaviour.

Short and simple: too much impatience on Lewis's behalf. F1 cars come with brakes for a reason. Trying such a desperate move in a car that is over one second faster than the rest of the field is simply not wise.

Mercedes have to take a part of the blame too. They refuse to let drivers go on different strategies and basically have been running a 'leader after T1 wins' rules since 2014. That sort of thing provokes such desperation.

[Nitrodaze]

There's the flaw in your logic, because Nico started to move right BEFORE Lewis did. In fact his move was practically telegraphed. Lewis thought his speed advantage was big enough to be alongside before Nico could close the gap, but he misjudged that. According to Stewards verdict Rosberg simply kept his line by the time Lewis came alongside, wchich is a valid bahaviour.

Short and simple: too much impatience on Lewis's behalf. F1 cars come with brakes for a reason. Trying such a desperate move in a car that is over one second faster than the rest of the field is simply not wise.

Mercedes have to take a part of the blame too. They refuse to let drivers go on different strategies and basically have been running a 'leader after T1 wins' rules since 2014. That sort of thing provokes such desperation.

I am not sure which race you were watching buddy, Nico's change of direction was at nearly 45%. It was not the normal racing line between turn one and two. Your argument fail in that Nico should have seen a faster car heading at him and taken avoiding but equally defensive action to ensure he remains in the race after turn two. A driver closes the door on cars behind if he sees it is safe and reasonable to do so, just as driver attempts to overtake a car in front when he sees a gap and sees that he has the speed advantage to make the overtake successfuly. There is an element of trust involved in making an overtake. Trust that the driver in front is good enough to recognise when there is a deficit of advantage lost to the car behind, hence an attempt to overtake is likely. And to make a sensible judgement call to defend in such a way as to not cause an accident.

When there is such a performance difference as there was between Nico and Hamilton while he sorted out his engine mode, the move to overtake is very much on. Any driver worth their weight in salt would definitely make that move. That was very similar to the Kyvat's move on Vettel in China. Vettel left enough room to avoid an accident.

Another interesting thing, was, Rosberg claims Hamilton was suddenly there. He clearly did not have any spacial awareness in the moments leading to the collision as he had his head down while all of it was going on.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sorry, Nitro, I'm not buying that. The replay has been shown over and over again, Nico moved off the racing line pretty much immediately after he'd cleared the corner. Lewis had all the time in the world to lift, stay left and be past. He was simply too impatient and Rosberg saying that Hamilton was 'suddenly there' is not too far-fetched, considering that he had closed the door before Lewis came alongside with two wheels already in the grass. He was most likely expecting him on the left (and looking there), because that's where most other drivers would have easily sailed past, instead of trying to force open a gap that was already closed.

Okay, most except Ricciardo. He would have waited for the next corner and dive-bombed from three thenth behind.

[Nitrodaze]

Sorry, Nitro, I'm not buying that. The replay has been shown over and over again, Nico moved off the racing line pretty much immediately after he'd cleared the corner. Lewis had all the time in the world to lift, stay left and be past. He was simply too impatient and Rosberg saying that Hamilton was 'suddenly there' is not too far-fetched, considering that he had closed the door before Lewis came alongside with two wheels already in the grass. He was most likely expecting him on the left (and looking there), because that's where most other drivers would have easily sailed past, instead of trying to force open a gap that was already closed.

I suppose we would see what we want to see. With the speed difference between the the two cars, l fail to see how Hamilton had the time to slow down. He was on the grass to take avoiding action. Both of Hamilton's front wheel was well past the rear wheel of Rosberg, thus it was clear to Rosberg that moving to the right was going to drive Hamilton of the track unto the grass. If it was a runoff area, then that would have been a reasonable maneuver. As it went, it was grass, consequently resulted in an accident that also took him out of the race.
I would say go watch it again.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sorry Nitro, but Hamiltons front wheel was never even next to Rosberg's rear wheel, much less past it. His front wing came close to the rear wheel of Nico's car, but he was already off the track beforehand. Both the overhead replay from the helicopter cam and his own incar replay showed that quite well. I guess we have to agree to disagree as we obviously saw two different races.

[Nitrodaze]

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...anish-gp-crash

Have a read of that.

Toto Wolff told a packed media briefing: "I think the manoeuvre was fair enough to attempt. The result was unfortunate, but making the manoeuvre and seeing the light [on Rosberg's car] blinking and just going for it was what he should have done.

"And equally you can't blame Nico for closing the door. But the difference of speed just triggered the incident in the end."

Buddy, the overtake was definitely on.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Nitro. The link says Sky UK. When have they ever been unbiased? And even Mercedes themselves don't know what to think. Wolff says both are at fault. Lauda says Lewis was wrong to try that. That in itself is rather funny, considering that Lauda has always been biased pro-Hamilton.

[Bagwan]

Patience of a saint , dj . Good man .

[dj_bytedisaster]

Anyway, off to bed for me. Have to go back to Austria tomorrow. It was good to see spirited debate back in the forum. It has been way too quiet lately. Cheers all