Verstappen to Red Bull!!!

[Ranger]

Kvyat was consistently about 0.6 to 0.8 seconds slower than RIC in all races this year and most races last year.

That is what I said.

Not really surprising, as Ricciardo was also faster than Vettel when they were team mates.

[jens]

Don't get the Red Bull hate here. They are ruthless, but are doing the right thing, because Verstappen is more talented than Kvyat. And they need every point they can get in battle with Williams for P3 in WCC.

Finally something exciting and refreshing in otherwise somewhat boring modern F1 - a battle between two giants, great talents. Red Bull's chassis is also great, potentially the only one, which can take the fight to Mercedes. Shame they don't have engine to complement it, but such is the state of affairs sadly...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Precisely. One can't but admire a four time WDC, even if he did get his ass handed to him by Danny Boy.

He did get his ass handed by

a) the team, which stole his potential victory at Canada (and apologized afterwards)
b) the car which kept breaking down while RIC's didn't. Even Marko admitted that and that says a lot.
c) the fact that they had to change the chassis three times throughout the year.
d) he went into the season with a massive mileage deficit as he also had the majority of mechanicals during the abysmal winter tests and RIC got the entire Bahrain test with Vettel not running at all.

There is no doubt that Danny got used to the different characteristics of the car quicker than Seb, but the picture is massively skewed by the fact that Vettel's year was like Lewis' start to 2016. He had all the bad luck in 2014. If you look at the second half of the 2014 season, you'll see that there wasn't much in between them. RIC is good, but he is not championship material, because he lacks the consistency. He is brilliant in one race and rather anonymous in the next. He was looking good in 2014, but a year later, against Kvyat he looked distinctly beatable while Vettel was back to his old self.

People seem to forget that the great Ayrton Senna once barely beat Berger by a single point. There were only five races in 1992 in which both Maccas finished and Berger finished higher than Senna in three of them. Long story short: Being handed your ass and having a bad season are not the same thing. Kimi Räikkönen was handed his ass, first by Alonso then by Vettel, but looking at 2015 you can easily see that Seb hadn't forgotten how to drive. He had just inherited Webbers car.

[zako85]

People seem to forget that the great Ayrton Senna once barely beat Berger by a single point. There were only five races in 1992 in which both Maccas finished and Berger finished higher than Senna in three of them. Long story short: Being handed your ass and having a bad season are not the same thing. Kimi Räikkönen was handed his ass, first by Alonso then by Vettel, but looking at 2015 you can easily see that Seb hadn't forgotten how to drive. He had just inherited Webbers car.

And let's not forget the infamous 2011 season when Button ended 2nd in WDC and clearly dominant over his now three times world champion teammate. According to Button himself, this was the best season he had in all of his career.

[Tazio]

Kimi Räikkönen was handed his ass, first by Alonso then by Vettel,

In all fairness to Kimi he had his ass also handed to him the year after he won the WDC by Felipe as well!

[Ranger]

He did get his ass handed by

a) the team, which stole his potential victory at Canada (and apologized afterwards)
b) the car which kept breaking down while RIC's didn't. Even Marko admitted that and that says a lot.
c) the fact that they had to change the chassis three times throughout the year.
d) he went into the season with a massive mileage deficit as he also had the majority of mechanicals during the abysmal winter tests and RIC got the entire Bahrain test with Vettel not running at all.

2014 Red Bull Statistics:
Qualifying: Ricciardo 12 - 7
Race finish: Ricciardo 11 - 3
Laps ahead: Ricciardo 483 - 448
Points: Ricciardo 238 - 167

Even accounting for reliability and racing incidents that isn't really that close.

There is no doubt that Danny got used to the different characteristics of the car quicker than Seb, but the picture is massively skewed by the fact that Vettel's year was like Lewis' start to 2016. He had all the bad luck in 2014. If you look at the second half of the 2014 season, you'll see that there wasn't much in between them. .

Be that as it may, that would put Ricciardo ahead of Raikkonen on current form, well ahead of Webber when he was Vettel's team-mate (Mark admits this).

RIC is good, but he is not championship material, because he lacks the consistency. He is brilliant in one race and rather anonymous in the next. He was looking good in 2014, but a year later, against Kvyat he looked distinctly beatable while Vettel was back to his old self.

He beat the reigning 4-time World Champion in the same car, which was not a championship winning machine.

Sometimes I think you believe that no one is better than Vettel, and create your reasoning from there.

For the record, Ricciardo's 2016 results:
Australia: 4th
Bahrain: 4th
China: 4th (after getting a puncture when leading, then dropping back to 17th)
Russia: 11th (after Turn 2 incident that wrecked his race)

People seem to forget that the great Ayrton Senna once barely beat Berger by a single point. There were only five races in 1992 in which both Maccas finished and Berger finished higher than Senna in three of them. Long story short: Being handed your ass and having a bad season are not the same thing.

There is no other meaningful comparison between Ricciardo and Vettel in the same car, bad season or not.

Kimi Räikkönen was handed his ass, first by Alonso then by Vettel, but looking at 2015 you can easily see that Seb hadn't forgotten how to drive. He had just inherited Webbers car.

Kimi Raikkonen hasn't driven a great race since 2013 when Grosjean was his team-mate.

He is easily the most overrated and overpaid driver on the grid.

[The Black Knight]

2014 Red Bull Statistics:
Qualifying: Ricciardo 12 - 7
Race finish: Ricciardo 11 - 3
Laps ahead: Ricciardo 483 - 448
Points: Ricciardo 238 - 167

Even accounting for reliability and racing incidents that isn't really that close.



Be that as it may, that would put Ricciardo ahead of Raikkonen on current form, well ahead of Webber when he was Vettel's team-mate (Mark admits this).



He beat the reigning 4-time World Champion in the same car, which was not a championship winning machine.

Sometimes I think you believe that no one is better than Vettel, and create your reasoning from there.

For the record, Ricciardo's 2016 results:
Australia: 4th
Bahrain: 4th
China: 4th (after getting a puncture when leading, then dropping back to 17th)
Russia: 11th (after Turn 2 incident that wrecked his race)



There is no other meaningful comparison between Ricciardo and Vettel in the same car, bad season or not.



Kimi Raikkonen hasn't driven a great race since 2013 when Grosjean was his team-mate.

He is easily the most overrated and overpaid driver on the grid.

And let's not forget Singapore qualifying where Vettel came over the radio to the pitwall apologising for yet another botched qualifying lap, stating that every time he tries to push he loses it. That was well into the second half of the season at that point, you'd think Vettel would have been used to the new car characteristics by then lol!

Ass handed might be the wrong description, perhaps humiliated by Danny would be more apt!

[jens]

Ricciardo in my book is a clear top driver, part of the "big quartet", which consists of Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, and him. Though Rosberg, Button and Verstappen aren't far off these. Now Max is the big questionmark. Clearly very talented, but how much so? Could he even join the very elite, making it a 'big 5'! Can't wait to find out. Though initially Danny Ric should have the edge.

[jens]

RIC is good, but he is not championship material, because he lacks the consistency. He is brilliant in one race and rather anonymous in the next. He was looking good in 2014, but a year later, against Kvyat he looked distinctly beatable while Vettel was back to his old self. .

There were some races in which Kvyat beat Ricciardo, but on most occasions (un)reliability beat Ricciardo last year. All top drivers have some 'off-days', but overall I have no doubt Daniel performed at a very high level. His race pace was usually better than Kvyat's.

[dj_bytedisaster]

And let's not forget Singapore qualifying where Vettel came over the radio to the pitwall apologising for yet another botched qualifying lap, stating that every time he tries to push he loses it. That was well into the second half of the season at that point, you'd think Vettel would have been used to the new car characteristics by then lol!

Ass handed might be the wrong description, perhaps humiliated by Danny would be more apt!

AS I said, it was a bad season and in no way comparaböe to how Vettel drove in 2013 and again 2015. It seems people look only at the points and not how it came about. In that regard Lewis was humiliated by Button in 2011 and lets not forget that over the entire three years Button and Hamilton were at McLaren, Button scored more points too. Boy, that guy must be hopeless...