BRC 2016 Pirelli Carlisle Rally

[Martin Liddle]

I still don't understand what does it mean. I have never seen something like that. What's the purpose?

It is something that is more or less unique to UK rallying. There is a maximum average speed (in this case 70mph) and competitors going faster than that are credited with the 70mph time. The MSA claim that it something the insurers insist on to keep the insurance premiums down. Events can apply for special permission to dispense with the bogey time (usually only granted to International status events) but then the insurance premium is substantially higher.

[N.O.T]

British autism at its finest... what a joke.

[Nornbugger]

I still don't understand what does it mean. I have never seen something like that. What's the purpose?

It is a time based on average speed that is taken as the fastest allowed stage time on UK rallies, we've had them for a long time, I seem to remember that on the 86 Ulster Rally a number of competitors equalled or beat it for the first few stages.

The 2013 MSA Yearbook states that “if the stage is wholly on a sealed surface, no Competitor should be able to achieve an average speed of more than 75mph” [R28.1.1.] and “if the stage is run partly or wholly on unsealed surfaces, no Competitor should be able to achieve an average speed of more than 65mph.” [R28.2.2.] A crew cannot set a Stage Time which has a quicker average speed than this.

[Simmi]

Instant facepalm when I saw this on SS1. Bogey times have no business being in an event of this calibre. Again evidence that the individual event organisers need a bit of help from the series/promoters to iron out these issues.

I think the series has grown quicker than a lot of people were ready for and it needs sorting out next year if it's to progress.

[Mirek]

Thanks, that's very strange rule and in my opinion pretty unfair one. We have also a rule about maximum average speed (it shall be for safety) but it only states that the same stage can not be run in the second loop and further in the next years. The times still count though as the crews worked (and risked) quite a lot to achieve them.

[Martin Liddle]

It is a time based on average speed that is taken as the fastest allowed stage time on UK rallies, we've had them for a long time, I seem to remember that on the 86 Ulster Rally a number of competitors equalled or beat it for the first few stages.

I have been involved in UK Rallying for more than fifty years and bogey times have been used for all that time on the vast majority of events.

The 2013 MSA Yearbook states that “if the stage is wholly on a sealed surface, no Competitor should be able to achieve an average speed of more than 75mph” [R28.1.1.] and “if the stage is run partly or wholly on unsealed surfaces, no Competitor should be able to achieve an average speed of more than 65mph.” [R28.2.2.] A crew cannot set a Stage Time which has a quicker average speed than this.

Average speeds were raised by 5mph for unsealed surfaces in 2015.

[Martin Liddle]

Again evidence that the individual event organisers need a bit of help from the series/promoters to iron out these issues.

Organisers are supported by a Sporting Consultant from IMS with extensive experience of WRC organisation.

[Mirek]

Organisers are supported by a Sporting Consultant from IMS with extensive experience of WRC organisation.

What does it change on the fact that it's pretty stupid? In this particular case the crews fought hard for exactly nothing on two out of four stages.

[Martin Liddle]

What does it change on the fact that it's pretty stupid? In this particular case the crews fought hard for exactly nothing on two out of four stages.

I was replying to a specific point about organisers receiving support from the series promoters. I have never liked the bogey time system but organisers are hard pressed enough financially in the UK without an increase in insurance premiums.

[Mirek]

Thanks for the reply. Still I think that it's possible to find a more fair way to solve the issue and in my opinion it is necessary to do so as the cars get faster and faster every year.