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Thread: Ferrari 1512 F1
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3rd February 2016, 18:59 #1
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Ferrari 1512 F1
An article in Vintage Motorsport about a restored Ferrari 1512 whetted my interest. I had forgotten about this rare model, (just 3 built), though I must have seen L Bandini race one at the 1964 USGP.
Ferrari raced with 3 different engines in 1964, the 1512 was designed to update the 158 V8 car and was a first attempt by Mauro Forghieri to design a flat 12 motor. Debuting at the USGP, it was not notably successful by Ferrari standards. John Surtees was not a fan, he preferred the 158 to race, leaving the 12 cyl car mostly for Bandini. The car scored no wins, but 3 podiums for Bandini in 1964-65. By mid 65 season, development stopped as Ferrari began to prepare for the new formula.
The current owner mentions the car is a "nightmare to maintain due to its great complexity". Multi plugs, cylinders, coils etc all within a 1.5 l displacement attest to that.
Some reasons for the failure of the design could be:
The displacement was just too small for a successful 12 cyl design. The most successful 1.5 l cars were V8 powered including Ferraris. Surtees won twice in 64 with the V8 while Bandini won in the V6 Dino as Ferrari took both championships.
The hugely successful Ferrari 312B was designed by Forgheri for 1970. Chassis and flat 12 motor were designed together to take full advantage of the configuration. Perhaps it was also a case of Forghieri getting it right second time around.
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6th February 2016, 14:20 #2
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I think it was a case of Enzo Ferrari hedging his bets. The new V8s from Climax and BRM were outperforming the Dino V6. The situation at Maranello was chaotic with many of the racing department having left with Carlo Chiti. So Ferrari set up two design & development teams in competition. The V8 team produced a raceworthy car first and from then on they presumably had priority for resources.
On the technical side, I agree that 12 cylinders is too complex for a 1.5 litre car, although Honda did achieve one win with their V12 which really needed another season's development. Pomeroy's "350cc is the optimum cylinder size" dictum suggests that a 4, with 375cc cylinders, was the way to go - think Cosworth FVA and BDA.Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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6th February 2016, 17:57 #3
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Yes the Honda also was a complex engine, not to mention the BRM V16 Supercharged unit.
Columbo's early V12 for Ferrari was 1.5l and was successful in racing terms. Are there any other notable 1.5l multi cylinder racing engines (above 8cyl)?
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8th February 2016, 11:42 #4
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The unraced Cisitalia (Porsche 360) had a flat-12 engine. Offhand I can't think of any other multi cylinder 1.5 litre cars.
Edit: And the Coventry-Climax flat-16 FWMW which never got beyond the prototype stageLast edited by D-Type; 9th February 2016 at 16:22.
Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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10th February 2016, 16:42 #5
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Not being the most technical savvy person around, what are the disadvantages of a flat 12 engine? I've always lead to believe that physical distance between the opposed heads (or any horizontally opposed engine, not just a 12 cyl.) make valves and camshafts difficult to time correctly, but I've understood this (or more likely I'm misunderstanding this concept ).
“If everything's under control, you're going too slow.” Mario Andretti
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10th February 2016, 21:19 #6
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