How to make ERC a real stepping stone?

[Jarek Z]

Is ERC that different?

All events of European championship are concentrated in Europe

No, they are not. Both Acores and Canarias are far islands thousands of kilometres away form Europe. I think that is what Sulland meant.

[WUff1]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.

[JUF]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.

I count 5 . Which are these Rallies in the outskirts for you?

[WUff1]

All except Ypres, Barum and Raid Rzeszowski

[RS]

WRC2 is a lot more expensive than ERC. Its main advantage is that it is World Championship. The name means a lot plus if You want to drive WRC one day You need to get experience on WRC stages. You may be a God of ERC but You still need two or three seasons in WRC to get in. The way to WRC through ERC is simply too long.

Not sure whether 'best in second tier WRC competition' or best in Europe sounds better to be honest.

Mikelssen, Meeke and Neuville didn't have the 2-3 years you talk about, although the first two had some previous experience of WRC stages. On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

[Munkvy]

On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

Tanak. It was called SWRC, but he did it in 2011 and then for 2012 had a works WRC drive. But look how that turned out for him!

And Paddon did better in PWRC (champion) than he did in SWRC (4th) or WRC2 (only did 1 round). But I agree, experience of stages is rather important in rallying.

[Mirek]

Not sure whether 'best in second tier WRC competition' or best in Europe sounds better to be honest.

Mikelssen, Meeke and Neuville didn't have the 2-3 years you talk about, although the first two had some previous experience of WRC stages. On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

Come on, Meeke has been around since 2004 or so. He has done a lot of WRC events already in JWRC. You can't take him for a newcomer ten years later. Mikkelsen has had a lot of WRC starts already before he went to IRC and right now he finished the 4th post-IRC season (the first one was with VW Fabia S2000). Neuville did JERC in the same time as IRC (plus some single rounds of WRC in previous years) and now he finished his 4th complete WRC season.

Together these guys spent more then 15 seasons in WRC and they managed to win how many times? Each one of them once? They are good and they definitely benefited from being part of the IRC show in its strongest days but still they didn't come as something groundbraking to the WRC. Still we talk about times when they had to fight with those like Hänninen, Kopecký, Loix, Rossetti etc. but all of those guys left ERC...

[RS]

Come on, Meeke has been around since 2004 or so. He has done a lot of WRC events already in JWRC. You can't take him for a newcomer ten years later. Mikkelsen has had a lot of WRC starts already before he went to IRC and right now he finished the 4th post-IRC season (the first one was with VW Fabia S2000). Neuville did JERC in the same time as IRC (plus some single rounds of WRC in previous years) and now he finished his 4th complete WRC season.

Together these guys spent more then 15 seasons in WRC and they managed to win how many times? Each one of them once? They are good and they definitely benefited from being part of the IRC show in its strongest days but still they didn't come as something groundbraking to the WRC. Still we talk about times when they had to fight with those like Hänninen, Kopecký, Loix, Rossetti etc. but all of those guys left ERC...

My point is that I don't see a great body of evidence to suggest WRC2 is that much better for someone looking to get a WRC drive. Sure it is important to learn the events but how many WRC event winners has SWRC or WRC2 produced?

Regarding Meeke, not sure how relevant some JWRC events 11 years ago are to WRC now?

Fair point on Mikelssen and his year in the VW Fabia.

Neuville's WRC experience was quite minimal and he was already very good in only his second year in a World Rally Car.

[Munkvy]

My point is that I don't see a great body of evidence to suggest WRC2 is that much better for someone looking to get a WRC drive. Sure it is important to learn the events but how many WRC event winners has SWRC or WRC2 produced?

Regarding Meeke, not sure how relevant some JWRC events 11 years ago are to WRC now?

Fair point on Mikelssen and his year in the VW Fabia.

Neuville's WRC experience was quite minimal and he was already very good in only his second year in a World Rally Car.

Assuming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...Championship-2 is accurate, one WRC2 event winner has also won a WRC event - Mikkelsen?

However in the last couple of years, how many people have won a rally that aren't named Seb or Jari that has not been gifted it by a VW failure? No one... So does going straight to WRC, doing WRC2 or IRC make a difference to your likelihood to being able to win? Stats would suggest no?

The only real way it seems to become a winner is to drive a VW or sabotage the VW's.

[Martins Tolks]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.

I agree and in same time not agree.

Yes, some events are quite far away (Acores and Canarias), in the same time, events in Baltics and Ireland , also Greece are not that far away.
Of course, for the name of European Championship, some events in France/Germany/GB should be added, but is there a possibility?
Guess, organizers from those countries are not so interested to host ERC event because of some reasons. And also, gravel rallies in central europe are extinct, aren't they?