Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts

    Suzie Woolf Quits F1

    I have to say, l am quite disappointed that the Suzie Woolf quest for a race seat was reduced to a side show at Williams. While it was a brave move initially, it has turned out to be harmful to the causes of Female drivers hoping to get a drive in F1. I think they shouldn't have taken on a female driver if they were not going to be committed to developing her to take a grid slot at some point in the process.

    I bid her farewell and only hope Carmen Jorda, Danica Patrick or Simona de Silvestro can pick up the mantle and make it unto the grid in the near future. The idea that female drivers cannot drive F1 cars is ludicrous. If they can go to war and fight in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, fly fighter jets, they can certainly drive an F1 car. We just need a remarkable individual with good intuition and perception, an unhindered conviction to see this. These sort of individuals are few and far between, but l hope they step up in the near future to end this barrier to women racing in F1. The more uninhabited and progressive mentality of Americans have allowed women to race at the highest level in American racing series. Nascar, Indycar etc I suppose Europeans who essentially are the majority participants of the F1 series are yet to embrace the liberated modern day woman in her full capacity.

    I think a woman is going to win an F1 drivers championship within 10 years if given the same chance as men to compete. It may sound impossible or ridiculous. The F1 community should take the dare and see what happens.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th November 2015 at 17:52.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,607
    Like
    28
    Liked 186 Times in 146 Posts
    The problem for F1, is where are the women drivers fighting for the championship in GP2, GP3 or FR3.5. And the problem for the teams in those championships, is where are the girls winning national F3 or Formula Ford races. And the problem for the national F3/FF teams is... well you get the picture.

    The lack of progressive mentality that you mentioned is not at the level of F1, it's at the level of junior karting. And at that level, it's not organisations, corporations or teams with entrenched ideas. It's attitudes in families and society generally.

    I think every F1 team would love to have a female driver racing in one of their cars, if they could find one fast enough. But a driver who's nowhere near good enough for F1 would do the cause more harm than good.

    Perhaps the best thing F1 teams could do would be to drop their female drivers into competitive GP2 or GP3 seats, rather than having them standing around in the garage. But I suspect the current range of candidates would be found wanting even at that level. Bernie's idea of a separate women's world championship might actually be the best available option right now in terms of providing visible role models for young girls who might want to get into karting.

  3. Likes: Big Ben (5th November 2015),COD (7th November 2015),Jag_Warrior (6th November 2015)
  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,607
    Like
    28
    Liked 186 Times in 146 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think a woman is going to win an F1 drivers championship within 10 years if given the same chance as men to compete. It may sound impossible or ridiculous. The F1 community should take the dare and see what happens.
    If a woman is going to win F1 in 10 years, she should be fighting for a national kart championship right now. Do you know of any candidates?

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
    The problem for F1, is where are the women drivers fighting for the championship in GP2, GP3 or FR3.5. And the problem for the teams in those championships, is where are the girls winning national F3 or Formula Ford races. And the problem for the national F3/FF teams is... well you get the picture.

    The lack of progressive mentality that you mentioned is not at the level of F1, it's at the level of junior karting. And at that level, it's not organisations, corporations or teams with entrenched ideas. It's attitudes in families and society generally.

    I think every F1 team would love to have a female driver racing in one of their cars, if they could find one fast enough. But a driver who's nowhere near good enough for F1 would do the cause more harm than good.

    Perhaps the best thing F1 teams could do would be to drop their female drivers into competitive GP2 or GP3 seats, rather than having them standing around in the garage. But I suspect the current range of candidates would be found wanting even at that level. Bernie's idea of a separate women's world championship might actually be the best available option right now in terms of providing visible role models for young girls who might want to get into karting.
    But Andy, all the motorsport series you have listed are all mainly european dominated series. Most team bosses in these series are european, hence the female racers have to force their way through several layers of resistance and negativity to a place in any level of motorsport within the european domain. Of course Vicky Piria in her debut year of 2012 for Trident in the GP3 series did not score a single point that season. The team was bearly a midfield team.

    I am a regular visitor to Buckmore park in Kent. And l can tell you that l have seen many truly brilliant girl racers on that track that would make your jaw drop. I watch their brilliant performances and think to my self that this brilliant young talent that l am witnessing is unlikely to make it in the racing world because of the barrier she must fight her way through to get any form of recognition for her talent.

    I don't think the normal feeder series for F1 would produce female racers at the moment. They would have to come from other similar level series such as Indycar and Nascar where they would have gained some experience and have become race hardened. If Montoya can transition to F1 from the indycar/Nascar series and make his mark in F1, the race winning female Nascar or Indycar driver would definitely be able to pull her weight in F1.

    It is interesting that you identify that the problem runs deep into the grassroots of european motor racing. These layers of barriers are only going to ensure that european female racers like Carmen Jorda have to make their way into F1 via the Nascar/Indycar series. Even so, it is still very hard for them.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th November 2015 at 17:52.

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,607
    Like
    28
    Liked 186 Times in 146 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    But Andy, all the motorsport series you have listed are all mainly european dominated series. Most team bosses in these series are european, hence the female racers have to force their way through several layers of resistance to their place in any level of motorsport within the european domain.
    And the point I am making is that the problem is not in any of those series. I don't believe that the barriers you're talking about exist. If there were women winning in GP2, GP3 or FR3.5, they would be in F1 like a shot. The sponsors would love it. And if there were women winning in national F3 or FF, they would get into the international series without a problem. But they simply aren't there.

    Realistically only the top handful in a lower formula are lilkely to be good enough to progress through a higher formula. And when I look at the 2015 British kart championship standings, there are no girls near the top of the standings in any of the categories. So you cannot say there is a barrier in European racing at any level above that.

    Why aren't the girls you're seeing at Buckmore Park going on to win the national kart championships? I'm not too familiar with kart racing so I can't answer that, perhaps you will have a better insight than I. But even at the national kart racing level, many of the winning drivers are privateers, not backed by professional teams. That's why I don't believe you can blame the institutions of motorsport, or teams or team bosses, for the fact that girls are not winning those championships, and therefore progressing through higher formulae.

    My guess is the true explanation is twofold. First, even at the lowest level, the girls are still vastly outnumbered by the boys. So statistically, the most talented 0.1% are probably almost all boys. Not because they are any better on average, but because there are so many more of them entering. Secondly, I suspect that the families of the girl racers perhaps push them less hard than the families of some of the boys, because of lesser or different expectations.

    I'm not suggesting that the problem "runs deep into the grassroots of european motor racing." I don't believe the problem is within motor racing at all. The great thing about racing is that it is very meritocratic. The problem is a more basic one within society as a whole.
    Last edited by AndyL; 5th November 2015 at 13:37.

  7. Likes: N4D13 (6th November 2015)
  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
    And the point I am making is that the problem is not in any of those series. I don't believe that the barriers you're talking about exist. If there were women winning in GP2, GP3 or FR3.5, they would be in F1 like a shot. The sponsors would love it. And if there were women winning in national F3 or FF, they would get into the international series without a problem. But they simply aren't there.
    I don't disagree with you on the winning aspect of your argument. My point is, female racers have to get the encouragement, support and welcome into those series in the first place before we can talk about why there are no female winners. I think focus should be on why there are no women in these series in the first place; yet there are women in the American series such as Nascar and Indycar.

    If talented female racers are encouraged, supported and given the opportunity to race in the series that you mentioned, there is a very high likelihood that we shall see female winners of races and championships.

    The idea of a separate series for women is nonsensical and very out of touch with this open modern times that we live in. If we can get the negativity out of the way, female talents would shine through.

    And l am not suggesting that the standard be lowered to allow female racers into these series. And a female racer that wants to race in GP2 must meet all requisites to compete in that series. Physical fitness, stamina and skill.

    However, one would expect the design of the car to take into consideration the physiology of the driver to assist the driver to race as fast as she can. Things like the weighting of the steering and the level of input forces required to maneuver the car through twisties etc.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 6th November 2015 at 12:12.

  9. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sleezattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,342
    Like
    737
    Liked 558 Times in 295 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    The more uninhabited and progressive mentality of Americans have allowed women to race at the highest level in American racing series. .
    Shirley

    You cannot be serious.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle WA, USA
    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  10. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by janvanvurpa View Post
    Shirley

    You cannot be serious.
    Well share your experience! :-)

    As far as l can see, there are women competing at the top level of America's motorsport. That is evidence enough. But you may have other perspective that l am not aware of, so please tell us.

    Simona de Silvestro, Danica Patrick and Sarah Fisher have had Indycar podium finishes in their careers.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th November 2015 at 18:20.

  11. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,607
    Like
    28
    Liked 186 Times in 146 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I think focus should be on why there are no women in these series in the first place; yet there are women in the American series such as Nascar and Indycar.
    As per my previous post, it goes all the way down. There are no women in those series (F3 etc) because there are no women winning in the feeder classes. Not because of sexism on the part of the F3 teams. So it goes on, down to junior karting, where there are no women challenging for those championships either. Whether there is any sexism in professional race teams is completely irrelevant if all the championships at the privateer karting level are being won by boys.

  12. Likes: Jag_Warrior (9th November 2015)
  13. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greenwich, London UK
    Posts
    3,438
    Like
    14
    Liked 789 Times in 651 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
    As per my previous post, it goes all the way down. There are no women in those series (F3 etc) because there are no women winning in the feeder classes. Not because of sexism on the part of the F3 teams. So it goes on, down to junior karting, where there are no women challenging for those championships either. Whether there is any sexism in professional race teams is completely irrelevant if all the championships at the privateer karting level are being won by boys.
    I think the emphasis has been to develop boys as they are an obvious prospect to progress up the level of racing. There are no women in the upper series, hence females are not seen as candidate for progression. I am not going to use strong words with -ism in them to describe this. But you have to admit that breaking the cultural mindset of a male dominated racing world is not an easy task for even the most talented female drivers. For male drivers, progression is expected and taken as given, only a reasonable show of some level of talent is required there after. For the female racer, she has to operate against a culture that is subconsciously resistant to her making progression to the next level. As where she is attempting to progress to, do not have her kind in it, hence she is fighting an uphill battle to be the first.

    You have to put yourself in her position to see why the situation is exactly as you describe. Not because there are no new female talent to develop, but that they are not being developed because the fear is they may turn out to be a waste of time, money and resources, if for instance she gets herself pregnant or something. Then there is the old question of toughness to race full distance [which is bollocks of course].

    Making it in a situation where the tide is against you is not so easy and it kills many a great prospect in the infancy of their career.

    This is what Carmen Jorda thinks about the situation http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...-f1-hopes/?s=1
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 5th November 2015 at 18:48.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •