Is Redbull the architect of its engine problems?

[Nitrodaze]

"The situation is clear, we won't get any of the existing powertrains because all teams fear that we would be faster than their own works outfits.As we know you can't buy courage or sporting spirit."-Mateshits (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121633)

Now there's going to be a bidding war to give them engines because he called them wusses .
They haven't really learnt anything from what's happening to them.

I think your quote is a good example why Redbull is struggling to find an engine. I doubt Redbull being feared is the reason that they are not getting an engine. They just rub everyone off the wrong way with their media antics. I cannot see how much good will such statement is likely to generate within the F1 community. If anything, they are showing why anyone should think twice about getting involved with them. They are kind of looking like krytonite to brand image of potential suppliers with their tactless comments to the media.

Toto Woolf did say that Mercedes did considered giving Redbull an engine supply but Redbull did not take up the offer for whatever reason, hence offered the opportunity to Manor. The truth is, they had great offers to keep them going in 2016, while they try to find a longer term solution but they did not take them. Reading between the lines, they had offers to take 2015 engines of Mercedes and Ferrari but rejected those for a 2016 Honda which would not be as competitive as the 2015 Mercedes engine.

If they think they have such a scary chassis, they should have taken the 2015 Ferrari or Mercedes engine which is faster than their current Renault and would be faster than the 2016 Renault or Honda engines. These 2015 engines may put them ahead of the Williams in 2016 in 3rd place of the constructors championship while they sort out a deal with Volkswagen or some other supplier.

With analysis, it is fair to say Redbull is simply demonstrating how not to do deals in F1. One thing is certain, if you had a wily saged head of someone like Ross Brawn in charge, this sorry state would not have occurred. They would have a Mercedes engine and they would be preparing to harass Ferrari for the 2nd spot or even hope to steal the championship from a Mercedes team that is known to make lots of mistakes.

Redbull need 2016 to regroup and they need a good enough engine for that period. Not necessarily to win the championship but to win enough races to be in the top 3 going into 2017. As it is at the moment, they may not have a Renault engine in 2016, if Renault decides to finalize the termination of contract from their perspective. They are still dancing around because they believe they may have a Renault engine to fall back on if all goes wrong. Or possibly leave the grid which would be their own fault really as they have not been exemplary in their handling of their engine situation.

[AndyL]

"The situation is clear, we won't get any of the existing powertrains because all teams fear that we would be faster than their own works outfits.As we know you can't buy courage or sporting spirit."-Mateshits (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121633)

Now there's going to be a bidding war to give them engines because he called them wusses .
They haven't really learnt anything from what's happening to them.

That is solid gold. If you could buy sporting spirit then Red Bull would have tons of it with their budget, so I guess what Mateschitz said must be true. It's also true that you can't buy Courage... they're Oreca now.

[The Black Knight]

"The situation is clear, we won't get any of the existing powertrains because all teams fear that we would be faster than their own works outfits.As we know you can't buy courage or sporting spirit."-Mateshits (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121633)

Now there's going to be a bidding war to give them engines because he called them wusses .
They haven't really learnt anything from what's happening to them.

Apparently you can't buy common sense coupled with a little bit of decorum either. What a clown!

[Rollo]

That is solid gold. If you could buy sporting spirit then Red Bull would have tons of it with their budget, so I guess what Mateschitz said must be true. It's also true that you can't buy Courage... they're Oreca now.

You can but sporting Spirit... especially if you're Honda

http://www.honda.co.jp/Racing/gallery/1983/01/

[Nitrodaze]

"The situation is clear, we won't get any of the existing powertrains because all teams fear that we would be faster than their own works outfits.As we know you can't buy courage or sporting spirit."-Mateshits (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121633)

Now there's going to be a bidding war to give them engines because he called them wusses .
They haven't really learnt anything from what's happening to them.

I suppose he means Mercedes and Ferrari did not have courage or sporting spirit when RBR was winning their 4 consecutive championships. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

[Duncan]

I think your quote is a good example why Redbull is struggling to find an engine. I doubt Redbull being feared is the reason that they are not getting an engine. They just rub everyone off the wrong way with their media antics. I cannot see how much good will such statement is likely to generate within the F1 community. If anything, they are showing why anyone should think twice about getting involved with them. They are kind of looking like krytonite to brand image of potential suppliers with their tactless comments to the media.

This. I really don't see how Mateschitz & Horner think they're helping their cause with what they're constantly saying to the media.

With analysis, it is fair to say Redbull is simply demonstrating how not to do deals in F1. One thing is certain, if you had a wily saged head of someone like Ross Brawn in charge, this sorry state would not have occurred. They would have a Mercedes engine and they would be preparing to harass Ferrari for the 2nd spot or even hope to steal the championship from a Mercedes team that is known to make lots of mistakes.

So when Red Bull finally throw in the towel, maybe Ross will be there to buy the team for £1...

"Brawn Again GP" has a nice ring to it.

[Nitrodaze]

Is there enough nous at Red Bull to build their own engines like Zakspeed did in Formula One? They can't very well do worse that Zakspeed can they?

Apparently, Redbull do not think your idea is that crazy as they have agreed with Renault to take on future development of the Renault engine with illmor assisting with its future development.

see http://thejudge13.com/2015/11/05/exc...gine-for-2016/

As it goes, RBR would be running the Renault engine in 2016. Now Mercedes and Ferrari have something to think about. All along, RBR appeared to be lost while they were actually negotiating intellectual rights on the ICE module on the Renault engine which they co-developed with Renault. Honda was interested in supplying Redbull, because RBR dangled the Renault ICE design at them. Renault who one would have expected to be very pissed with redbull for the state of affairs in the media was unusually quiet. Now we know why, they needed to secure the rights to the ICE design which RBR has a joint rights to. The media charade was cloak and dagger after all.

That said, it is great RBR would be on the grid for 2016. I would love to see how the 2016 Renault engine developed with illmor's involvement would compare to the competition.

[The Black Knight]

Apparently, Redbull do not think your idea is that crazy as they have agreed with Renault to take on future development of the Renault engine with illmor assisting with its future development.

see http://thejudge13.com/2015/11/05/exc...gine-for-2016/

As it goes, RBR would be running the Renault engine in 2016. Now Mercedes and Ferrari have something to think about. All along, RBR appeared to be lost while they were actually negotiating intellectual rights on the ICE module on the Renault engine which they co-developed with Renault. Honda was interested in supplying Redbull, because RBR dangled the Renault ICE design at them. Renault who one would have expected to be very pissed with redbull for the state of affairs in the media was unusually quiet. Now we know why, they needed to secure the rights to the ICE design which RBR has a joint rights to. The media charade was cloak and dagger after all.

That said, it is great RBR would be on the grid for 2016. I would love to see how the 2016 Renault engine developed with illmor's involvement would compare to the competition.

I think it's a shame that these guys have managed to secure an Engine for 2016, if that report is accurate. They are not good for the public image of F1 and they deserved to be without an Engine for 2016 because of their behavior alone. Anyway, lets wait for official confirmation but I personally hope they crash and burn.

[jens]

I think it's a shame that these guys have managed to secure an Engine for 2016, if that report is accurate. They are not good for the public image of F1 and they deserved to be without an Engine for 2016 because of their behavior alone. Anyway, lets wait for official confirmation but I personally hope they crash and burn.

Yep, it is definitely awesome if there are no competitive teams in F1 and everyone besides Mercedes crashes and burns I guess.

[zako85]

I am really confused about this story because if what I have read is true, then the power unit used in Red Bull no longer is going to be "Renault" branded, but something else. If this is true, then where does that leave Renault who will be left with no prime teams using a Renault-branded power unit? Is Renault going ahead with making Lotus its works team?