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  1. #21
    Senior Member Stan Reid's Avatar
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    That looks more like a roll cage than a closed cockpit. A bubble top would look sort of cool but they might have to mandate some sort of air conditioning for the cars.
    This is my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking

  2. #22
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    I saw a review of the set up from , I think , Ant Davidson , and he said he was surprised that he had ample peripheral vision , but had real trouble with the front pillar on the straights .

    There is a point at which impairing the vision of the driver whilst trying to keep him safe becomes a self defeating proposition .

    Thinking about this brought an idea to mind .
    We know that the head protection for the side impact has been raised in recent years to the detriment of peripheral vision .
    Is there a reason that they couldn't project an image taken from outside the cockpit , on the inside of the cockpit surround , giving the impression to the driver that the surround is much lower ?
    If possible , the idea could allow even higher sides , while providing much more head protection without giving up an open cockpit .

    Could it work ?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    I saw a review of the set up from , I think , Ant Davidson , and he said he was surprised that he had ample peripheral vision , but had real trouble with the front pillar on the straights .

    There is a point at which impairing the vision of the driver whilst trying to keep him safe becomes a self defeating proposition .

    Thinking about this brought an idea to mind .
    We know that the head protection for the side impact has been raised in recent years to the detriment of peripheral vision .
    Is there a reason that they couldn't project an image taken from outside the cockpit , on the inside of the cockpit surround , giving the impression to the driver that the surround is much lower ?
    If possible , the idea could allow even higher sides , while providing much more head protection without giving up an open cockpit .

    Could it work ?
    I'm sure they could make it work, but really even in F1 why?

    I think they could easily make a roll cage, hoop, or methods other than full enclosures that would satisfy even greater safety than they have currently, and make driver visibility as good or better than it is now. I'm really not opposed to being able to see the drivers less, if whatever they come up with improves safety and satisfies a long term goal.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    I'm sure they could make it work, but really even in F1 why?

    I think they could easily make a roll cage, hoop, or methods other than full enclosures that would satisfy even greater safety than they have currently, and make driver visibility as good or better than it is now. I'm really not opposed to being able to see the drivers less, if whatever they come up with improves safety and satisfies a long term goal.
    I'm not talking about seeing the driver , but , rather , the driver's vision .

    Although , I do like to see the driver working in the car , so I'd prefer no halo or hoop from a strictly aesthetic point of view .
    It's also a part of the danger that makes the sport alluring , to strap one of these rockets on with the visor in the wind .

    And so , comes the idea that the sides could be higher , but treated like a screen to give the pilot rails both sides for wider debris to ride over , and better side impact protection at the same time .
    I would guess the only issue to be the loss of the screen during racing , which could be catastrophic .
    But , given all the tech seems to have become almost impossibly reliable , I'm sure also that redundancies could reduce the issue to almost an impossibility , itself .

  5. #25
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    Bagwan,

    I did get your point about the drivers vision. Even though F1 could deal with the complexity of it, I just think it would be easier to form protection the driver could see through. Similar to the designs that might use a roll cage vs a canopy, I think it would be fairly easy for F1 to engineer an easier solution than the screens.

    I also thought about if the screen died during a race, and if it would force a driver to stop, or worse possibly force a dangerous situation. There would have to be some type of external monitor and that could get covered with debris, and the electronics could go as well. I'm sure they could do better than now, but at the same time the drivers seem to be able to use those tiny mirrors fairly well. It's almost hard to believe they get to the point of overlapping wheels at times, so they must have better vision than we suspect.

  6. #26
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    Yeah , the deal breaker , of course , would be the potential to break down .

    It is a cool concept though , that makes me wonder if they've thought of it in that world .
    As they've got lots of simulator gizmos around , it wouldn't surprise me if they had , but I don't think I've ever seen anything like the idea .
    If it was added to the cars right now , as they are , it would seem to be something that might help .

    Allowing more unobstructed vision , or more properly stated , perhaps , as "reconstructed" vision should result in a much more confident and committed driver , and , thus , results , don't you think ?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Reid View Post
    That looks more like a roll cage than a closed cockpit. A bubble top would look sort of cool but they might have to mandate some sort of air conditioning for the cars.
    Yep, a bubble top would be cooler, but it seems there is resistance to closed cockpit. An open cockpit solution is being sought. so far, finding a solution that does not impair driver peripheral vision, is aesthetically pleasing, tough enough to withstand heavy forces and a deflector of small projectiles, is proving difficult to find at this time. The mercedes halo is the best option at this time it seems. Maybe someone would find that the closed cockpit idea was the best after all, we will see.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 3rd February 2016 at 18:44.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Yeah , the deal breaker , of course , would be the potential to break down .

    It is a cool concept though , that makes me wonder if they've thought of it in that world .
    As they've got lots of simulator gizmos around , it wouldn't surprise me if they had , but I don't think I've ever seen anything like the idea .
    If it was added to the cars right now , as they are , it would seem to be something that might help .

    Allowing more unobstructed vision , or more properly stated , perhaps , as "reconstructed" vision should result in a much more confident and committed driver , and , thus , results , don't you think ?
    I do think they could use technology to improve driver views, but it's hard to say which views might benefit them more. Certainly better peripheral vision might be one of them that could help. It would be interesting to see the actual POV the drivers get from the current mirrors. Though compared to street cars we think of them as small and somewhat useless, you can often see drivers watching the mirror. For me personally when I lived in Okinawa and had a car with forward mounted mirrors, I thought they gave an excellent view of the road and were more useful than most door mounted mirrors.

    The guys driving these things seem to be able to absorb a ton of data, so I would think any screen that actually just works as a view or mirror wouldn't bother them at all, and might even make it easier to keep their vision focused within certain areas.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    I do think they could use technology to improve driver views, but it's hard to say which views might benefit them more. Certainly better peripheral vision might be one of them that could help. It would be interesting to see the actual POV the drivers get from the current mirrors. Though compared to street cars we think of them as small and somewhat useless, you can often see drivers watching the mirror. For me personally when I lived in Okinawa and had a car with forward mounted mirrors, I thought they gave an excellent view of the road and were more useful than most door mounted mirrors.

    The guys driving these things seem to be able to absorb a ton of data, so I would think any screen that actually just works as a view or mirror wouldn't bother them at all, and might even make it easier to keep their vision focused within certain areas.
    I personally think they should get rid of those tiny mirrors and stick some rear facing cameras on the car. And display the info from the cameras in a screen in the cockpit. it may also be a projected image to panels on either side of the steering wheels. The driver would benefit from a better rear view than from those tiny mirrors.

  10. Likes: AndyL (4th February 2016)
  11. #30
    Senior Member anfield5's Avatar
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    The main issue with any hoop, halo, cage or bubble is the drivers ability to get out of the car if it ends up with the wheels at the top, I would guess the halo has been tested upside down, but it still looks like it would hinder the driver

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