Ogier thread

[AnttiL]

He hasn't won 5 titles.

There was an "if"

[rhm]

Agreed; for similar reasons, for me personally, Kankkunen is still the greatest due to his 4 titles with 3 different manufacturers.

Yes, and also Sainz, coulda woulda shoulda won a few more championships...

[AnttiL]

Kankkunen won WRC rallies in RWD car, 4WD car, Group B car, group A car and WRC car. And not just one each, but at least two each. No one else can say the same.

[Francis44]

Interesting discussion, any fan will argue his favorite driver is better.

However, and being a huge Loeb supporter, he lost a bit of respect from me when he ran away like as soon as he found out Ogier would have a powerfull team alongside him, and that as we all know would mean the first true competition for a championship in many years.

[Lousada]

So far Ogier has never had to face someone as good as Marcus Grönholm. When people compare Ogier and Loeb I think they really underestimate how good Grönholm really was. Nut until this season I think Neuville is approaching the same speed and consistency as Grönholm had in Loeb's days.

In that sense I rate Ogiers VW titles the same as Loebs last few titles. They could be compared as during these two periods Ogier and Loeb both had the best car by far and their only major rivals were their teammates. Since Ogier joined Ford we now have a duel between two great drivers in different teams. In that sense it resembles more Loebs first few years were he faced Grönholm.

[AnttiL]

Yeh, some championships are more valuable than others. When Biasion won his titles in 1988 and 1989, there were really no other realistic contenders other than his teammates, who weren't even driving a full program. The rival teams were the RWD Ford and the underdeveloped Toyota.

[L555MAT]

Yes, and also Sainz, coulda woulda shoulda won a few more championships...

I agree...Colin Mcrae is my all time favourite driver but I think Sainz is probably the best ever

[Allez Andruet]

Yeh, some championships are more valuable than others. When Biasion won his titles in 1988 and 1989, there were really no other realistic contenders other than his teammates, who weren't even driving a full program. The rival teams were the RWD Ford and the underdeveloped Toyota.

Yes, it true that Miki's titles came when Dr. Alen was already slightly past his prime (as well as not driving full program as you already wrote), Kankkunen was basically out of any title contention due to underdeveloped and unreliable Toyota and the new generation of drivers (namely Sainz, Auriol, Delecour) were still too green. But... I don't think that should downplay Miki's resume. He was really close snatching the title already in 1987 and pretty much matched the pace of Alen and Toivonen during his Jolly Club days in 1984 and 1985. So Miki definitely deserves to be ranked right up there with other greats.

[racerx1979]

My vote goes to Marcus Gronholm for being fast, crazy and extremely entertaining with his choice of words.

[AnttiL]

Yes, it true that Miki's titles came when Dr. Alen was already slightly past his prime (as well as not driving full program as you already wrote), Kankkunen was basically out of any title contention due to underdeveloped and unreliable Toyota and the new generation of drivers (namely Sainz, Auriol, Delecour) were still too green. But... I don't think that should downplay Miki's resume. He was really close snatching the title already in 1987 and pretty much matched the pace of Alen and Toivonen during his Jolly Club days in 1984 and 1985. So Miki definitely deserves to be ranked right up there with other greats.

Between Portugal 1988 and Acropolis 1989 Biasion started in ten rallies with nine wins and one second place. I don't think even Loeb managed a streak like that, but it's not that he was so much better than everyone else, there just was no reasonable competition. I agree that he's very good, but just not that good.