Hamilton vs Vettel, which is better?

[Nitrodaze]

I came across this interesting article about Hamilton and Vettel which got me thinking;

http://www.givemesport.com/467873-is...bastian-vettel

there are some drivers that hold a special place in most F1 fan's mind as unquestionably great drivers. Alonso is one such driver, though the last time he won the F1 championship was back to back 2005-2006 WDC. Apart from his amazing driving which is believed by most to be the most complete, he won his WDC beating Michael Schumacher who was by a mile the best driver in this era of F1. Which is an accomplishment to rebuff any other. Ten years on from his first WDC, Alonso has yet to win another WDC for a number of reasons. His attempt to win his 3rd WDC in a highly competitive Mclaren in 2007 was curtailed by a rapid rookie, a chap called Lewis Hamilton; remember him. What looked like a 3rd WDC was fast becoming a historic rookie WDC in his first year in F1.

Like Alonso who handed Schumacher 2 crushing defeat in 2005 and 2006, Hamilton comprehensively beat Alonso in 2007 in the same machinery and without team order or other management assistance. Incidentally, Alonso spent his defeating year demanding management support and team order to assist him in beating Hamilton, thankfully Mclaren refused to interfere in the inter-teammate racing. The ensuing commotion went on to deprive Hamilton of his first WDC in 2007 and handed Raikonen his only WDC.

Though Hamilton went on to win his 1st WDC in 2008 in a dominant year but somewhat shaky end at Brasil, he had already stamped his name firmly in the imagination of a huge majority of F1 fans as a truely gifted driver with realistic capability of being a great driver.

Vettel won 4 WDC in a very dominant REDBULL, beating Alonso in a comparatively inferior Ferrari along the way. The question that most fans have been asking was; would Vettel be able to beat Alonso or Hamilton, driving the same car? Mind you this list, use to include Raikonen, whom Vettel is comprehensively beating at the moment.

We are talking about the elite driver on the F1 grid here. The problem with Vettel image is that he has not beaten anyone of real stature [the likes of Alonso, Schumacher etc] in the same equipment while winning any of his four world titles. Though Webber was a great driver, he did not qualify as he had not won an F1 prior to pairing with Vettel. The 2014 season do not help matters as rookie Ricciado comprehensively beat him.

The real question remains; how would Vettel fair, if he were teammates with either Alonso or Hamilton?

[AndyL]

I don't have an answer to your question about Hamilton and Vettel, but I have to pull you up on this:

Like Alonso who handed Schumacher 2 crushing defeat in 2005 and 2006, Hamilton comprehensively beat Alonso in 2007

Are you sure you're not thinking of another season? Hamilton beat Alonso on countback to second place finishes in 2007. If that's a comprehensive defeat then Kimi inflicted nuclear armageddon on both of them by scoring 1 more point

[Nitrodaze]

I don't have an answer to your question about Hamilton and Vettel, but I have to pull you up on this:



Are you sure you're not thinking of another season? Hamilton beat Alonso on countback to second place finishes in 2007. If that's a comprehensive defeat then Kimi inflicted nuclear armageddon on both of them by scoring 1 more point

To be fair, saying comprehensive may be an exaggeration, but Alonso finished that year knowing that Hamilton had the measure of him. Hamilton had larger share of car problems. Gearbox problem wiped his 7 point lead to Alonso to 2 points at the end of the season. He also lost a 17 point lead to Raikonen, which handed the title to Raikonen due to retirement at the penultimate race [Chinese GP]

If you take bad luck out of it, Hamilton would have won the 2007 WDC and beat Alonso by a wider margin.

[AndyL]

OK I do have an answer. I think Hamilton would edge it over Vettel by the thinnest possible margin. I mean it's pretty close between Hamilton and Rosberg, but with 4 championships under his belt, Vettel is surely mentally stronger than Rosberg and probably faster too.

You're right that 2014 doesn't help Vettel's reputation, but on the other hand Hamilton has also had a season where things did not go his way and he was beaten by his teammate.

[AndyL]

Hi buddy, on official point difference you would be right. But you forget the race win on Hamilton that was disallowed due to Mclaren infringment of the rules.

I did forget that, you'll have to remind me which race that was. I only recall McLaren losing constructor's points, and the business in Hungary where Alonso received a grid penalty.

[henners88]

I would say Hamilton by a whisker. Both very strong World Champions with a history of wheel to wheel racing with each other. I hope we see a decent battle this season with these two.

[Nitrodaze]

OK I do have an answer. I think Hamilton would edge it over Vettel by the thinnest possible margin. I mean it's pretty close between Hamilton and Rosberg, but with 4 championships under his belt, Vettel is surely mentally stronger than Rosberg and probably faster too.

You're right that 2014 doesn't help Vettel's reputation, but on the other hand Hamilton has also had a season where things did not go his way and he was beaten by his teammate.

The DNFs that afflicted Hamilton in 2014 brought Rosberg closer to Lewis to mount a challenge for the 2014 title. Rosberg was never really close enough to Lewis's performance in 2014, Lewis's DNFs gave the false impression that it was. The 2015 season would have been a better measure but team mistakes have overshadowed things. We do not have a clean run to help us ascertain the real state of affairs. Hamilton's dominance is not properly reflected in points. Though the current point difference stands at 21 points, if Monaco was error free, the gap would have been 28 points at least. But we cannot rule out errors, mistakes and car failures in defining the performance of any driver. Luck is very much a part of winning or losing.

My point is, you should not use Rosberg as a measure to determine how Vettel would fair. I would expect Vettel to beat Rosberg in the same car.

On Hamiton been beaten by his teammate, there is no shame in being beaten by a world champion. There is a saving grace there which is not applicable when your teammate is a rookie.

[steveaki13]

I would say Hamilton in out and out pace and as an attacking driver.

However if I had a dominant car and wanted one driver to drive it. I would take Vettel. It may be dull to watch sometimes but he can dominate a season and races in a way Hamilton can't.

I always sense Lewis will make some mistakes and have a "Hungary" type race. Vettel does not seem to have those often in a dominant car. He gets in front and stays there.

So two answers for me depending on how you look at it.

[Nitrodaze]

I would say Hamilton in out and out pace and as an attacking driver.

However if I had a dominant car and wanted one driver to drive it. I would take Vettel. It may be dull to watch sometimes but he can dominate a season and races in a way Hamilton can't.

I always sense Lewis will make some mistakes and have a "Hungary" type race. Vettel does not seem to have those often in a dominant car. He gets in front and stays there.

So two answers for me depending on how you look at it.

Do you mean a dominant car with a pit wall [team] that makes no mistakes or simply a dominant car regardless of the mistakes of the pitwall [team]?

[The Black Knight]

I don't rate Vettel nearly on Hamilton's level and I don't think he could live with Hamilton's pace over the course of a season. Vettel looks great out front when leading because he never has a teammate that is able to pressure him in a dominant car, like a very capable Rosberg to Hammy, until Danny in a 3 race winning albeit not so dominant car last year.

I remember USA 2012 where Hammy beat and passed Vettel on one of the few weekends they McLaren had a car that could challenge him. Or Canada 2011 where he cracked on the final lap. Vettel looks better because he was never challenged by a capable teammate until last year where, to be honest, I think his true level was shown up that he was not the best driver on the grid and definitely not worth 4 WDC's. A true great wouldn't have been so conclusively beaten like he was last year.

As for Hamilton 2011, even in 2011, he had an off last half of season in particular. True it shouldn't had happened but he wasn't comprehensively beaten either and still won a couple of races, unlike Vettel, whom wasn't even close last year. Plus 2011 was clearly an off year for Hamilton & that shows in that he beat Button the other two years they were teammates. I don't personally feel that is the case with Vettel last year, I just think he was beaten by the better driver.