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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jag_Warrior's Avatar
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    Random thought...

    While it's obvious that the Honda power unit isn't up to snuff, is anyone else tired of McLaren's whining? What I mean is, when McLaren had Mercedes power last year, they got their butts kicked by Williams-Mercedes and just edged Force India-Mercedes in the final standings.

    Ronnie, my man, the car sucks. Yes, you have a dud engine. But even if you still had a Merc, I don't think you'd be challenging Mercedes for wins. And I doubt you'd be roughing up Ferrari or Williams either. Honda is a (sadly) different company from what it was in the 80's and 90's. But McLaren is a very different constructor too. You do less with more. While Force India, for instance, does more with less.
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
    Random thought...

    While it's obvious that the Honda power unit isn't up to snuff, is anyone else tired of McLaren's whining? What I mean is, when McLaren had Mercedes power last year, they got their butts kicked by Williams-Mercedes and just edged Force India-Mercedes in the final standings.

    Ronnie, my man, the car sucks. Yes, you have a dud engine. But even if you still had a Merc, I don't think you'd be challenging Mercedes for wins. And I doubt you'd be roughing up Ferrari or Williams either. Honda is a (sadly) different company from what it was in the 80's and 90's. But McLaren is a very different constructor too. You do less with more. While Force India, for instance, does more with less.
    Agree completely. For the resources they have, I think McLaren are the most under-performing constructor of the last 22 years. 1998 Is the only year in 23 years that they haven't claimed both constructor and drivers championship. That's pretty appalling considering the resources available to them.

  3. #23
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    In Monza they reached the milestone of 50 races without a win.

  4. #24
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    The points system is too weighted in far of consistency imo.

    A single DNF has far too much effect on the title race. Back in the day, if Hakkinen retired, it didn't cause a massive swing in the wdc that made it almost over. A DNF could be recovered from.

    I want them to change the points to 25-15-12-10 etc. Then DNFs aren't as costly. I believe the points since 2003 punish a DNF far too much. For example Hamilton needing 4 wins in a row to cancel out just 1 DNF seemed totally wrong, with the most famous example being the Liuzzi-Toccacelo situation in F3000 in 2004 that was mentioned. And now due to a single DNF Rosberg seems completely wiped out of the title for now.

    I think this is a contributing factor to this playstation era of all cars just driving round and finishing like on a game, cos top runners simply can't afford a single DNF anymore. Time was when you daren't go put the kettle on, as one fan said, cos by the time you got back, someone could have dropped out and the race would be changed, and you missed it.
    SPAM - Going off topic to give you the deals you don't want.

  5. Likes: steveaki13 (15th September 2015)
  6. #25
    Senior Member Jag_Warrior's Avatar
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    As far as the decline in overall TV viewership, I've been wondering how much of that is down to the Mercedes/Hamilton domination and how much is down to Bernie's move toward the pay-TV model, while leaving more over air viewers without a way to view... unless they're willing to pay. At least in the U.S., "cord cutting" is on the upswing. IMO, Bernie is too old school and doesn't understand the longer term damage being done to F1 by excluding so many viewers. Sponsors want eyeballs. And Bernie's "gimme gimme gimme" model runs counter to that.

    But anyway, I'd be curious to know how many have stopped viewing because they don't subscribe to pay TV and how many have stopped watching because they're bored or turned off? Has anyone seen any studies?
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

  7. #26
    Senior Member kfzmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
    Random thought...

    While it's obvious that the Honda power unit isn't up to snuff, is anyone else tired of McLaren's whining? What I mean is, when McLaren had Mercedes power last year, they got their butts kicked by Williams-Mercedes and just edged Force India-Mercedes in the final standings.

    Ronnie, my man, the car sucks. Yes, you have a dud engine. But even if you still had a Merc, I don't think you'd be challenging Mercedes for wins. And I doubt you'd be roughing up Ferrari or Williams either. Honda is a (sadly) different company from what it was in the 80's and 90's. But McLaren is a very different constructor too. You do less with more. While Force India, for instance, does more with less.
    I have read a number of detailed analyses about the McLaren chasis and it is not bad at all. The most recent even quoted it as the 4th best behind Merc, RB and STR based upon detailed GPS info. I imagine that with a much better PU that it would show much better, just like RB. If true, that would put their chassis in front of Ferrari and Williams!

    The ICE is down some 80HP, but the real issue for McLaren is the Energy Recovery system. You can read more here http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...dache/?v=2&s=1
    Honda so far have not allowed any outside know-how into their world and that is costing them and McLaren valuable time.

    We will have to wait for the season to start again before they can fully show what they have learned about their first year PU. This is unfortunately the way the current F1 development rules are written. Honda is already working on the revised PU behind the scenes.

    It truly is a test of patience. Just ask ALO, BUT, Boullier or any fan!
    Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent

  8. #27
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    All Rejoice!

    Apparently, the Mercedes domination is not as bad as we used to think. After all, because of Singapore, Hamilton and Mercedes couldn't break a number of Formula 1 records.

    Most consecutive pole positions by driver: 8 by Ayrton Senna in 88-89. Hamilton's streak ended at 7 in Monza.

    Most consecutive pole positions by team: 24 by Williams in 1992-1993. The Mercedes streak ended at 23 in Monza.

    Now they have to start all over again because of Singapore to try to break those records.
    Last edited by zako85; 21st September 2015 at 13:55.

  9. #28
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    Nigel Mansell at 63 years old says he can match Hamilton's times in the petronas mercedes car, given a couple of weeks to practise. In his hay days l would not doubt it for a moment, at 63 l have to say dream on. But l would put my money on him getting close to a second off the pace of Hamilton. That said, who can tell what is possible with a former world champion. I would definitley like to see him try if Mercedes and the FIA would oblige. Treble world champion Stewart was able to get close to a second of his best driver, Webber in the Stewart F1 car on one day of trying, who knows what is possible given a couple of weeks.

    I suppose the racer in Mansell is still raging. I suppose a FIA series for retired racing drivers may be a great idea. The series could be based on three generation old f1 cars using cars retired by F1 teams from 3 major regulation updates back. For example, racing 2007 f1 cars and 2007 regulations. To qualify, drivers must have retired for at least 3 seasons before the regulations used for the series. That would be a very interesting series and you heard it here first.

  10. Likes: rjbetty (4th October 2015)
  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zako85 View Post
    All Rejoice!

    Apparently, the Mercedes domination is not as bad as we used to think. After all, because of Singapore, Hamilton and Mercedes couldn't break a number of Formula 1 records.

    Most consecutive pole positions by driver: 8 by Ayrton Senna in 88-89. Hamilton's streak ended at 7 in Monza.

    Most consecutive pole positions by team: 24 by Williams in 1992-1993. The Mercedes streak ended at 23 in Monza.

    Now they have to start all over again because of Singapore to try to break those records.
    When you put it like this, then you have to wonder how come Mercedes had a freak mysterious faze in performance at Singapore. How come Ferrari with what is obviously a significantly underpowered engine compared to the Mercedes winning races. The whole thing looks somewhat stage managed. Ferrari winning is good for the sport and l am sure some would want to see Ferrari win. The circumstances of their wins this year looks abit fishy to me. It feels abit like Mercedes is masking their dominance in the interest of the show, hence a few Ferrari win would pacify the fans as opposed to one team winning everything which would no doubt foster resentment and criticism of mercedes winning everything
    Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the unexplained drop in performance on the occasions Ferrari has won has seemed to be stage managed to me. And l have looked very carefully at all of the info available to the public obviously. And l have found these coincidences abit too convenient. And the key spokenmen are such bad actors, you could smell a rat from a mile off. That said l was pleased to see Ferrari win some of the races this year. I just wished it did not seem abit phoney to me.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 4th October 2015 at 10:10.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    I suppose the racer in Mansell is still raging. I suppose a FIA series for retired racing drivers may be a great idea. The series could be based on three generation old f1 cars using cars retired by F1 teams from 3 major regulation updates back. For example, racing 2007 f1 cars and 2007 regulations. To qualify, drivers must have retired for at least 3 seasons before the regulations used for the series. That would be a very interesting series and you heard it here first.
    He did pretty well in that Grand Prix Masters series they ran about 10 years ago. I think they had to be over 40 for that and it was a one-make series. It's a shame that only lasted a year or two.

    Any series that's too close to current F1, in terms of cars or drivers, would face some serious opposition from those with fingers in the F1 pie.

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