Ayrton Senna: A True F1 Legend

[jens]

I think there is a difference between legend and all time great. I mean Gilles Villeneuve is considered a legend by some, but did not get the chance to become an all time great.

All time greats for me.

Fangio, Ascari, G. Hill, Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel (just for 4 titles in a row)

It is interesting, Steve. To try to define different phrases.

Legend is more like a "mythical" status. It doesn't need to attach results to get to the memory, it doesn't even need a driver to be great or have great skills for him to become legendary.

It is just everyone's personal brain memory, what they remember and what they consider as memorable, remarkable, great. Minardi is considered as a legendary F1 team, largely because they managed to stay in F1 for so long as The Back-end Team! So it is the opposite of being legendary based on performance. You are legendary based on lack of performance!

[jens]

In your opinion who else ranks as a true legend of F1?

I think for me Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher are a great quartet of legends. I am often torn whether to add Prost there as well, so it is sort of 4.5 for me.

Behind them comes the list of "tier 2 legends" (weird phrase I know!), who were also great drivers, in some periods perhaps even the best on the grid. Here the list gets very long and I am less sure, who to add. Just to start with: Ascari, Moss, Stewart, Lauda, G.Villeneuve.

Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel also have a legitimate claim to be there. They have been a major force in F1 for some time, and in Alonso's case for more than a decade. The only reason, why it feels strange to add them is because they are active in F1 and thus do not feel like "legends" yet!

[AAReagles]

This thread is about Senna...
Culpable driving shouldn't have been tolerated by the FIA.

Yes the title does indicate it is about Senna; however the OP did ask other members about their thoughts of other possible great drivers. Which was responded accordingly.

Also, I quite agree that questionable and deliberate driving performances should be addressed with consequences.

Perhaps if Senna was penalized properly to begin with, this sort of rubbish wouldn't have been adapted by other drivers.

[anfield5]

How about Giancarlo Bahetti as a true F1 legend?

Why him? I hear you ask - didn't only ever win 1 GP?

Yes he did only win once, but it was in his first GP drive - no other driver has achieved this and it is doubtful that they will. Hamilton came close with 3rd on debut and Jaques Vileneuve finished 2nd to Damon Hill

[Rollo]

Yes he did only win once, but it was in his first GP drive - no other driver has achieved this and it is doubtful that they will.

Except:

Giuseppe Farina - British GP 1950.

[steveaki13]

How about Panis. He won the Monaco GP the hardest race to win according to ex drivers

[anfield5]

Except:

Giuseppe Farina - British GP 1950.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong Rollo. Bitish Gp 1950 was NOT Farina's first GP, first WDCGP yes but he had been racing in international GPs for years before someone decided to call things a world championship

Plus Baghetti's only win was his first race. Farina could be included as a legend though, because he was and always will be the first World Champion and you are correct he did win the first World Championship GP

[Rollo]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong Rollo. Bitish Gp 1950 was NOT Farina's first GP, first WDCGP yes but he had been racing in international GPs for years before someone decided to call things a world championship

Right then, we take your definition:

Ferenc Szisz - 1906 French GP

By any definition of what you want to call a Grand Prix, there must have been a first one and whoever won that must've won on debut.

Maybe we call the De Dion Steam Tractor which won the first recorded motor race between Paris and Rouen in 1894 the first.

[anfield5]

Right then, we take your definition:

Ferenc Szisz - 1906 French GP

By any definition of what you want to call a Grand Prix, there must have been a first one and whoever won that must've won on debut.

Maybe we call the De Dion Steam Tractor which won the first recorded motor race between Paris and Rouen in 1894 the first.

Fair point Rollo.

I was simply saying that Farina didn't win on debut where as Baghetti won his first GP. But as you say whoever won THE first GP must have won their first GP and son on

[journeyman racer]

I am often torn whether to add Prost there as well, so it is sort of 4.5 for me.

How can you be torn, when overall, he's the best driver of all time so far?

How about Panis. He won the Monaco GP the hardest race to win according to ex drivers

Webber likes pumping himself up.