Rank the drivers

[Zico]

I think I agree 90% with this list. and the only change would be that Hamilton is just about equal to alonso. both have shown to be equally adept in outperforming their cars

Also maldonado, is clearly a tier 3 driver, whether one likes him personally or not. the guy is talented behind the wheel and on a good day could be a race winner
for example, for all his incidents, they probably have been less than what grosjean did in his career which got him a 1 race suspension, and IMO he is a superior driver to massa, who honestly belongs in tier 4, if for no other reason than his complete inability to drive in inclement conditions and was pretty much coached around every corner during races.

I also think that perez is a solid tier 3 driver to me.

Yes, maybe I wasn't clear enough but I did try to make clear that I feel Hamilton is very, very close to Alonso overall, no argument there..

Maldonado is very quick, no question and on a good day in terms of pace yes he is right up there with the best of them but in my book being quick is only a part of the measure of a driver, looking at the bigger picture ie; from a team boss perspective and if money was not a factor to consider I'd actually choose Massa (Who yes, I'll concede, is arguably Tier 4) over Maldonado for my No2 (or reserve driver) seat , A- because Maldonado would be highly likely to wreck a disproportionate amount of my chassis's and place a huge workload on the rest of the technical/garage staff, a workload that would be far better utillised in car development and B- because he is a real danger to other drivers in F1. I have no personal dislike of the guy but his crash rate/danger factor is simply unacceptable.

Grosjean, did have a period in his career where he was as dangerous as Maldonado but he has clearly re-evaluated his approach to his driving in recent seasons and his mistake/crash record has improved massively, Maldo on the other hand, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to have been able to do that. If you have any stats on this that might change my mind I'd be more than happy to re-evaluate.

I found my Tier 3 and 4 to be the most difficult to determine, current vs recent form vs potential.. but yeah, Perez Tier 3? He is a solid driver, I guess rating him a Tier 4 is very unfair on him, consider it amended.


Edit- Maldo does seem to have improved (very) recently, found this... http://hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com/

[Zico]

The list of every Pastor Maldonado crash & incident…


2011 Malaysian Grand Prix - Spins in the pitlane and damages the car in Practice 2.

2011 Chinese Grand Prix- Spins at Turn 6 and beaches the car in Practice 1.

2011 Turkish Grand Prix - Damages the car after his second spin in Practice 1.

2011 Monaco Grand Prix - Collides with Lewis Hamilton whilst being overtaken on Lap 73. Retires from the race.

2011 Hungarian Grand Prix - Speeds in the pitlane and serves a drive through penalty.

2011 Belgian Grand Prix - Crashes into Lewis Hamilton whilst heading to the pits during qualifying. Receives a grid penalty for doing so.

2011 Italian Grand Prix - Spins into the wall coming out of parabolica during qualifying.

2011 Japanese Grand Prix - Runs off at high speed over the grass in Practice 1 and stops the car on track shortly afterwards.

2011 Korean Grand Prix - Hits a bollard entering the pitlane and receives a drive through penalty.

2011 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Receives a drive through penalty for ignoring blue flags then receives a 30 second penalty for continuing to ignore blue flags.

2011 Brazilian Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall by himself at Turn 3 on lap 28.

2012 Australian Grand Prix - Collides with Romain Grosjean on lap two. Grosjean is pushed off the track and retires with damage. Crashes into the wall by himself on the final lap.

2012 Malaysian Grand Prix - Runs off the track during qualifying and damages the car.

2012 Monaco Grand Prix - Crashes into Sergio Perez in Practice 3. Receives a ten place grid penalty for doing so. Crashes hard into the wall at Casino Square by himself in Practice 3. Crashes into the back of Pedro De La Rosa on lap 1 with enough force to retire them both.

2012 Canadian Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall by himself during qualifying.

2012 European Grand Prix - Crashes into Lewis Hamilton when rejoining the circuit and receives a penalty for doing so. Hamilton retires.

2012 British Grand Prix - Crashes into Sergio Perez on lap 12. Receives a reprimand and a fine for doing so. Perez retires.

2012 Hungarian Grand Prix - Crashes into Paul di Resta on lap 48. Receives a drive through penalty for doing so.

2012 Belgian Grand Prix - Blocks Nico Hulkenberg during qualifying and receives a grid penalty for doing so. Jumps the start and receives a penalty for doing so. Crashes into the back of Timo Glock on Lap 5 and receives a penalty for doing so.

2012 Indian Grand Prix - Collides with Kamui Kobayashi on lap 32, runs off track and picks up a puncture.

2012 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Collides with Mark Webber on lap 23.

2012 Brazilian Grand Prix - Misses the weight check during qualifying and receives a reprimand for doing so.

2013 Australian Grand Prix - Spins out of the race by himself at Turn 1 on lap 25.

2013 Malaysian Grand Prix - Runs off the road by himself and damages the car on lap 14.

2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Speeds in the pitlane and receives a penalty for doing so.

2013 Monaco Grand Prix - Collides with Giedo van der Garde and damages both cars on lap 1. Collides with Max Chilton and hits the barriers on lap 44. Chilton is penalised.

2013 Canadian Grand Prix - Spins into the wall and damages the car at Turn 3 in Practice 1. Crashes into the back of Adrian Sutil and damages the car on lap 7. Receives a penalty for doing so.

2013 Belgian Grand Prix - Collides with Adrian Sutil and damages the car on lap 28. Crashes into Paul di Resta on his way into pitlane and receives a penalty for doing so. Di Resta retires.

2013 Singapore Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall at Turn 13 by himself in Practice 2.

2013 Japanese Grand Prix - Crashes into the barrier at Turn 9 by himself in Practice 2. Collides with Valtteri Bottas on the last corner of the last lap. Bottas runs off the track.

2013 United States Grand Prix - Collides with Adrian Sutil and damages the car on lap 1.

2013 Brazilian Grand Prix - Collides with Jean Eric Vergne and spins on lap 65.

2014 Australian Grand Prix - Spins and beaches the car by himself in qualifying.

2014 Bahrain Grand Prix - Runs off the road and damages the car in Practice 2. Crashes into the back of Esteban Gutierrez after the apex of Turn 1 on lap 48. Receives a penalty for doing so. Gutierrez flips over and retires.

2014 Chinese Grand Prix - Veers off the road whilst looking at his steering wheel in Practice 1. Crashes in the pitlane entry in Practice 2.

2014 Spanish Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall by himself at Turn 3 in qualifying. Crashes into Marcus Ericsson on lap 1 and receives a penalty for doing so.

2014 British Grand Prix - Collides with Esteban Gutierrez on lap 47. Gutierrez runs off the road with damage.

2014 Hungarian Grand Prix - Collides with Jules Bianchi and spins on lap 15.

2014 Belgian Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall by himself in Practice 2.

2014 Singapore Grand Prix - Crashes into the wall by himself in Practice 2.

2014 United States Grand Prix - Speeds behind the Safety Car and receives a penalty for doing so.

2015 Australian Grand Prix - Gets hit by Felipe Nasr, keeps the throttle open, and spins into the wall on lap 1.


That looks unbelievable when you see it like that. Unfortunately I cant find the same stats for Grosjean but despite an early blip in the 2013 season I don't recall him being involved in near half as many incidents even since the start of 2013... would be interesting to make a direct comparison tho.

[AndyL]

The list of every Pastor Maldonado crash & incident...

At least he's getting better... if the trend continues he's only due 7 more incidents this year.

[Zico]

At least he's getting better... if the trend continues he's only due 7 more incidents this year.

Yeah, that would be one less than last year, maybe Ferrari will then come knocking.

[jens]

There is no way I can rate Maldonado highly. Leaving aside the Manor drivers, the only one I could possibly think is inferior to Pastor is Ericsson. Of course you could argue about the likes of Kvyat, since he is young and not shown much, but against a bit more experienced drivers Pastor remains consistently short.

That he can put in a couple of good drives per season, doesn't show much. Many drivers can do that. Sato had several good drives each year. What matters is consistency, which is much harder to achieve.

Let's put it this way. In bowling I can also hit strike X once or twice during a game, but my overall score still isn't much. Getting one shot right isn't that hard. But it is damn hard to do it consistently.

Oh... and about crash count. Maybe Grosjean and Maldonado had a similar crash rate in 2012, but since then no way. Grosjean has improved immensely, and Maldonado has not, crashing still lots each year. I am struggling to remember the last Grosjean crash TBH?!

[rjbetty]

I will try and rank the drivers just based on early 2015 form. I didn't know whether it would be best to start a new thread or hijack this one.

Lewis Hamilton - 9.0
Not much to say. Seems to have stepped up/not had back luck skewing the way his results look. For the most part would have to be close to 10.0 but he has shown some imperfections such as not having quite the race pace of Rosberg in Malaysia, and not getting it together for Spain, meaning he doesn't look quite as invincible right now.

Fernando Alonso, Daniel Ricciardo, Sebastian Vettel - 8.5
It's not easy to tell when all 3 drive cars with wildly different competitiveness. No reason to think Alonso or Dan have slumped. In fact I'd say Dan looks to be getting pretty much everything possible out of the RB. As for Seb, I felt 9.0 would be too high given Kimi has at least matched him in races, but 8.0 also too low.

Romain Grosjean, Nico Rosberg, Valtteri Bottas, Nico Hulkenberg, Jenson Button - 8.0
It's so easy to forget about drivers like Grosjean and Hulkenberg, who look invisible. Too often, we all seem to fail to fully separate car and driver performance. How highly would we rate Grosjean and Hulkenberg were they team mates at Ferrari for example? Yet accurately separating car and driver performance isn't easy ain't it?

Grosjean has outqualified and beaten Maldonado every time. Sometimes in races Pastor seemed slightly quicker but Romain brought the car home and has all 16pts. Can he really do much more?

Rosberg hasn't looked so hot so far this season, until Spain. I'm not sure he really slumped as much as Hamilton simply hasn't started 25pts behind this time, or had qualifying mechanical failures - thus this season has been a truer picture of the difference between them - it's just more visible now. Nevertheless you couldn't fault him in Spain, and it just goes to show that you can never count N.Rosberg out - which must be a sign of a very top driver.

Bottas had a slightly average start by his standards but looking deeper has done just as well. He hurt his back and still suffered the effects for a while. In races he is pretty much unbeaten by his team-mate and now ahead in pts despite being 1 down.

Hulkenberg looks invisible in a Force India, yet I feel were he in a Ferrari he would be doing every bit as good as Raikkonen. His race results vs Perez is a concern though.

Button is the hardest to quantify. Does he automatically get higher ranking by being a WDC, or has he still got it? Seems pretty well matched with Alonso so I can't put him lower than this.


Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa, Sergio Perez - 7.5
Kimi has looked better this year but in truth far off in quali. Has had all the bad luck though and in races, has generally, if anything, had an edge on Vettel. Refuelling may hurt him though? I do in all honesty though, think he is slightly over his hill, and as you can see, I believe quite a few other drivers are already on his current level, but just don't have the car to show it yet.

Massa started 2015 very strongly, outqualifying Bottas 3-0. This does however, remind me of his false dawn in 2013, after which he faded again. I suppose it will be the same this time as Valtteri is already asserting himself.

Sergio Perez is another invisible driver, but how good would he look in a Ferrari or a Mercedes? Has beaten Hulkenger handily in most races, despite starting behind.


Daniil Kvyat, Max Verstappen - 6.5
I'm willing to give Kvyat the benefit of the doubt as he has had almost all the problems at RB. I will give him more time to settle in.

It's no great surprise that the Max V doubters have been proven wrong, and sure enough, he would have a swag of points right now - upwards of 16pts - only mechanical failures costing him.

Carlos Sainz - 6.0
Examining the races of the lesser heralded STR driver also shows some interesting findings. Looked on for at least 7th in Melbourne, finished 8th in Malaysia, despite starting down the back through no fault of his own iirc, then 9th in Spain. However he seemed nowhere in China and Bahrain, not sure why.

Felipe Nasr, Pastor Maldonado - 5.5
Great job bagging that 5th, Felipe II, but only been so-so since.

Maldonado has been pretty quick in some races. I will give him the benefit of the doubt as collisions in all 5 races, seem to have not been his fault. Going off in China pitlane again was though. Despite bad luck, 0pts still unimpressive.

Marcus Ericsson - 4.0
Not much to say. Not awful but no future great. Nice having someone from Sweden around though.

Will Stevens - 3.0
Is doing all that can be asked.

Roberto Merhi - 2.5
I feel he is getting a raw deal compared to lead driver Stevens. I truly don't think Manor mean any harm, it's just that they're in no position to provide equal treatment right now though they'd really want to.

[rjbetty]

The ultimate driver's championship I tried out in Grand Prix 2 was largely based on the post above, just fyi.

[N4D13]

I'm surprised that so many people continue rating Verstappen over Sainz in my perception, which I feel is not really representative of their actual performances so far. I think this actually has to do with all the Verstappen hype: people have been following young Max and saying "oh, well, he's actually quite good", but at the same time they might have neglected to follow Sainz's progress with the same degree of interest.

Anyway, right now Sainz is 5-2 in qualifying (if you count Monaco as a win for Sainz, otherwise 4-3), and 1-1 in the races where neither driver retired due to a reliability issue. Both drivers have had their blips (a spin in China for Carlos, an accident in Monaco for Max), but overall, I feel that both have been doing a great job so far considering that they're rookies.

I think they're actually too close to tell which one is doing a better job, but I would simply remark that maybe people have been focusing too much on one of the drivers...?

[Robinho]

I'm surprised that so many people continue rating Verstappen over Sainz in my perception, which I feel is not really representative of their actual performances so far. I think this actually has to do with all the Verstappen hype: people have been following young Max and saying "oh, well, he's actually quite good", but at the same time they might have neglected to follow Sainz's progress with the same degree of interest.

Anyway, right now Sainz is 5-2 in qualifying (if you count Monaco as a win for Sainz, otherwise 4-3), and 1-1 in the races where neither driver retired due to a reliability issue. Both drivers have had their blips (a spin in China for Carlos, an accident in Monaco for Max), but overall, I feel that both have been doing a great job so far considering that they're rookies.

I think they're actually too close to tell which one is doing a better job, but I would simply remark that maybe people have been focusing too much on one of the drivers...?

Maybe it's because whilst they are actually very close in on track performance so far, Max is only 17, a full 3 years younger than Carlos. As impressive as Sainz Jr has been so far (and I am impressed) that just enhances the reputation and potential of his even younger and less experienced teammate. For me they look like both being superstars.

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[jens]

I'm surprised that so many people continue rating Verstappen over Sainz in my perception, which I feel is not really representative of their actual performances so far.

Remember last year. Vergne beat/outscored Kvyat by 21-8 or something like that in the points. But Red Bull promoted Kvyat and Vergne was sent out of F1 altogether.

Also Räikkönen was hyped far more despite getting beaten by Heidfeld in 2001.

There are more examples than that.

I think it is believed Verstappen has more long-term potential even if Sainz is a bit better right now.

But of course we will see, what the future brings. It is easily possible Max is overhyped. Though I have to say I have been very impressed with him at times.

The issue currently is that we have never had a 17-y-o driver in F1. And it is just a shot in the dark to guess how much improvement potential he has. We have seen some drivers enter F1 by storm and not really improve later on. Who knows, maybe Max is so well-prepared he is close to his peak already?! That would be the worse case scenario for him. Because the expectation is that a 17-y-o kid has lots of improvement potential in F1 terms.